Professional potheads...

[the other anonymous]

I lived out of a car for three months, did you read that part?  I woke up every morning and drove seven miles to the bathroom, or, if I couldn't hold it, went in the woods.  Is that poor enough for you?    

Thank you for conceding that the flat tax should not start until over fifteen thousand.  And I will say that I know that plenty of people in other countries have it way worse off, so excuse the use of the word dire.  It did feel dire when I was constantly sick and frostbitten because I didn't have money for decent clothes and decent food.  Frostbite hurts.  And yes, I got TREATED for stuff at the hospital or doctor's, but the bills are still mine.  Also, instead of getting the very best care, I got the cheap version, and the free samples they had, because how am I going to fill a prescription without any money?  I had the phone cut off, and the electric.  And, you most certainly cannot go into a dentist's office anytime without any money.  Tooth problems can lead to other health problems.

I think in Appalachia, all the poverty is in one place, so it is easier to see.

I would have loved to be in school back then.  I did not have on cent left over for classes, nor for the gas money to get there and back, nor for repairs to my car.

If there is such a great housing program in this country, how come so many people are homeless?  How come so many people want nothing more than to be in school, but find themselves stuck just keeping up with the bills?

[Anonymous]

There are lots of homeless because do gooders closed the mental hospitals and nobody pays for chronic mental illness treatment.  Wandering loonies.  Sucks.
Next group is drunks/druggies...refer to above as it is the same problem often.
A VERY SMALL percentage of homeless are able and willing to work, have gotten nothing but bad breaks, and will shortly work out of it.  Short term shelters, programs like Salvation Army will help you out if you WANT it.
I still have no idea how I paid my bills and went to college full time.  Part family, part govt, and private.  I still say if you WANT to go to school and have aptitude AND interest, you will suceed.  
Anyway, I'll shut up now.

[kpickle39]

Don't you mean Republicans?   Many, many public mental hospitals closed during the Reagan administration.  Part of the down sizing.  Typical republicans...what programs can't be eliminated via legislation get water down through budget cuts until they are totally ineffective.  Remember bag ladies?   They (the homeless) to a great extent are the legecy of our great president, Ronald McDonald; I mean Reagan.

[Froderik]

Speaking of Reagan, anyone from VA (or elsewhere, if it applies) remember when Dean showed the group a like 20-minute long bit of propaganda about Ronald Reagan? I think it may have been around the time that he was up for re-election...It was in the 'carpet room...' hell, at least we got to see a "movie" instead of having a rap...Alex

[Anonymous]

Speaking of Reagan, there was a huge photo of Nancy Reagan on the wall at Backlick Road.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

On 2002-11-11 12:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
There are lots of homeless because do gooders closed the mental hospitals and nobody pays for chronic mental illness treatment.  Wandering loonies.  Sucks.
Next group is drunks/druggies...refer to above as it is the same problem often.

I think that is quite harsh. Tell me how many homeless ppl do you know or have ever met? There are plenty of homeless ppl because of economic problems within this country, with many more to come if the current prez appointed continues on his path. Just an FYI: for those that can not afford health ins. chronic illness can be a problem. Just the cost of chemical treatment alone is outrageous, and first you need to pay some one to write a prescription, and that is not alleyways cheep. There is more causes to becoming homeless then just being a "Druggie or a wandering loonies". There are mentally ill and druggies too, but what about those that are not? There are entire families that are homeless, or single parent families, where the bread winner has died or "split town" and the other is left holding the bag and the children.

I will concede that there are some homeless ppl that are perfectly happy. They enjoy their homelessness and wouldn't have it any other way. But that is a small majority and does not reflect the entre homeless population.

Quote:

I still have no idea how I paid my bills and went to college full time.  Part family, part govt, and private.  I still say if you WANT to go to school and have aptitude AND interest, you will suceed.  
Anyway, I'll shut up now.

Have you forgotten, that some people have no family to fall back on or a family that is too poor to help, or that they are an outcast from their family, like some of the survivors I see here. So the family option for these people is out.

The Gooberment is selective about who they give their money too, and the schools/private sector are even more selective about who they will give money/scholarships to. And not all have an aptitude to attain a college degree.


The shame is there that is a big stigma to being homeless, and that once you hit that point it is VERY difficult to get back out. How many employers do you think are willing to employ a homeless person (who, if they could get the job, would not be homeless for long)? how many of those do you think pay above minimum wage?

While I have never been homeless, I have been damn close, and it wasn't easy to hold on and dig my way out. I can only imagine what it would be like to start from the bottom of the pit.

[ClayL]

I hate to burst your fuck the rich bubble but most of the patients were thrown out of the mental hospitals because of a suit filed by the ACLU. When you lose your patient load it makes no sense to keep the facilities open. I liked Reagan, He was responsible for ending the Cold War, Freeing Eastern Europe, the greatest boom in the economy the Nation has ever seen (Something George Bush I continued and Clinton lucked into). Reagan's one truly pathetc policy was the Drug War. It takes about two years for changes to show up in the economy. The crash George Bush II had were the direct result of the Bill Clinton, a legacy furthered by Enron and WorldCom. I do not believe in entitlements or redistributing wealth. Just my opinion.

CL

[Tampa survivor]

Clay, you are the fuckin' man.
Bill

[Anonymous]

Quote:

On 2002-11-12 08:00:00, ClayL wrote:I liked Reagan, He was responsible for ending the Cold War, Freeing Eastern Europe, the greatest boom in the economy the Nation has ever seen (Something George Bush I continued and Clinton lucked into). Reagan's one truly pathetc policy was the Drug War. It takes about two years for changes to show up in the economy.

You have got to be smoking crack! Next your gona tell me Reagan was responsible for the theory of relativity eh? The only thing I got from trickle down economics was a wet path on my leg from the leak in my RAW ass. And no Regan was not the sing sole responsible for the end of the cold war (Money, or the lack of it was). And Exactly who did he free??

 Fact of the mater is this country was in a GREAT resession during the Regan/Bush and Bush/Quail years. The economy didn't start turning around until about 2 years into Clintons first term.( Ther's your two years buddy) And now 2 years into Juniors first (and only I hope to freakin GOD) term we have taken a major down turn. You could blame a bunch on Terrorism but that wasn't much, it was the Bullshit that followed.

[Tampa survivor]

If you want to think about the quote you took...

Untreated mental illness IS the #1 cause of homelessness.  REAGEN DID NOT CAUSE THIS.  Clay is correct...the ACLU did it.  Reagan just closed the hospitals with no patients...SMART MOVE.  ACLU wouldn't settle to reopen them.

Next point...ETOH and drug abuse is more often SELF-MEDICATION.  In short term "get on your feet" homeless shelters and real drug rehabs, PSYCH is the #1 treatment.  The addiction/habit is secondary.  Take care of the underlying mental problem and LOTS of your drug problem vanish.

Now, if you read my post again, you will note that PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is a major part of success.  I said you have to work the grant thing.  Same with social services.  MEDICAID pays for every single thing you could get.  Better than private insurance.  If someone is UNABLE to fill out the form, someone will fill it out for them. Financial aid at college is one form sent to fed. Everything else is right on campus.  They make it simple enough. IT IS NOT SELECTIVE>  You make it sound like rich white kids in POLO shirts driving BMWs get to the trough first.  Get real, that is not how it works. The poorer the better. Rich kids don't get shit.    Passing is the student's responsiblility.

In closing, I would venture to guess that I have known more homeless people than most on this board.  I have worked in a psych unit. I took part in a VA program delivering and injecting schizophrenics (and other types too) with thier meds in thier residence so they wouldn't forget to come in monthly. Trust me, these are not places most people go. The program works.  Its cheaper too.  All they gotta do is stay in one place, or tell us where they moved.  

I work neurology mostly now. For the last two weeks I have had a subdural hematoma patient.  He hit his head when assaulted on the street.  Homeless guy.  He was drunk.

I know homeless people.

Bill

PS Sorry 'bout forgettting to log in...the post you quoted was mine.

[ This Message was edited by: tampa survivor on 2002-11-12 13:16 ]

[Tampa survivor]

Sys Admin you are in need of some reading upon economic history for the last 25 years as your response to Clay indicates.  

Reagan bankrupted the Soviets.  Good thing they couldn't keep up with our buildup.  Capitalism works.  Socialism does not.  PROVEN FACT.   So much for Marx.  Unfortunately he was wrong. Great theory, but will NEVER work.  Look at nature.  Communism only works for ants and termites.  They kill and EAT the weak ones..

 

Read PJ O'rourkes "Eat The  Rich"

Not everyone is cut out to make it.  

Do you want to take Fornits and give it to a group of "under-privlidged" people who DESERVE a shot at biz ownership? Come on, you are so much 'Luckier".  They never got a chance to learn HTML, Java,etc..

Hey that kid walking deserves a car.  Give him yours? I bet you  come up with a reason you deserve it more.

Think about it.





[ This Message was edited by: tampa survivor on 2002-11-12 15:55 ]

[Anonymous]

I think it was the submarines ...

The Soviets had more than america and the maintenance of those things amounted to hundreds of millions of dollars PER YEAR.

So no, American presidents didn't make the USSR go away ... in the end _it's_all_about_the_money_.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

On 2002-11-12 13:33:00, Tampa survivor wrote:
Okay Ginger,

First of all, I am not Ginger! And Regan is not soly responsible for the down fall of the iron curtan. Well unless you are in the thinking that the cold war started in November of 1980.

[kosmonaut]

It would be helpful to see some hard references to all the claims made in this thread.  Where do you get your information?

[ClayL]

If you don't think the mess the economy WAS in is not a direct result of Wild Billy's lack of leadership, then I can see no point in argueing with you. After all, a person who chooses to be that blind to reality is not going to be persuaded one way or the other.

Reagan knew the Soviet Union could not keep up the spending. He defined them as "The Evil Empire," thus giving policy to what Americans had believed for years. Bill Clinton had NOTHING to do with the Boom of the 90's. He was in the right place at the right time. He was too busy chasing interns to mess things up with entitlements and wealth redistribution schemes like most Democrat before him. Then he was too busy trying to tell America that a blow job wasn't sex. He was so successful at this that America, with the help of the elitist, democrat controlled media, completely forgot what the big stink was about. Bill Clinton LIED while under oath. You and I would be doing time in prison for the same offense.

Now if you'd think about the "GREAT" recession it was caused by the Nixon debacle and the inability of Carter to provide effective leadership. This was furthered by the fuel crisis and OPEC. My theory on this is America Tells the OPEC nations to come off the hip with the oil prices or America stops selling them bullets.

As for, "Who did he Free?" I notice only one Germany on the map now. The Soviet Union has proven not to be all that unified. Yugoslavia desintegrated and so forth. What happened in most of these nations is tragic, but these people are free to behave like assholes, to form their own beliefs and in a lot of cases to die for what they believed in (or just being in the wrong place). Now this is oversimplification is the extreme, but some of y'all may get my point.
I will not try to justify the stupid hatreds of the eastern Europeans though. It's like all our white supremcist assholes went over there and ran amok.

Last as far as I know, Ablert Einstien came up with the theory of relativity and I have never smoked crack. Damn near everything else, but not crack.

CL