Public School and Program Abuse

[Whooter]

So what I see so far is that programs may do a better job at doing criminal background checks and that is why we are not seeing the level of reported activity of abuse by staff and teachers that we are seeing coming out of our public schools.

Anne Bonney  feels the abuse is embedded into the schools' methods rather than in the hired staff and teachers.

RobertBruce seems to feel that programs report less abuse because they dont have the oversight that the public school system does.

So there are many different opinions coming out of the same information stream.  I feel there is a little bit of truth in all of them but not one of them stands alone as the only factor in why Public schools are having all these problems with teachers abusing students and programs are not experiencing this level.



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[RobertBruce]

I agree, the abuse that occurs in programs is far wose. I'm glad you're on the same page as us and are finally starting to see just how abusive and unsafe these programs are.

[Whooter]

November 3, 2010

A Lake Zurich High School drama teacher who resigned abruptly last week has been charged with having sexual relations with a student at the suburban school, police said.

Ronald D. Culver, 51, of Inverness, was charged Monday with aggravated criminal sexual abuse, a Class 2 felony. He posted $10,000 bail and was released.

Culver, who also taught public speaking, quit Friday after the allegations against him were made the day before, officials said.

"This was an individual placed in a position of trust, and he violated that trust," Lake Zurich Police Chief Pat Finlon said.

District 95 Supt. Mike Egan described the mood at Lake Zurich High School as one of "shock" and disbelief. "It's a sad day within the high school," he said.

The alleged contact is still under investigation, and so far, officials are only aware of the one allegation.

The sexual abuse charge was upgraded to "aggravated" because the alleged contact took place on school property and Culver held a position of authority, officials said.

Culver is scheduled for a preliminary hearing in Lake County Court on Nov. 18. If convicted, he faces up to seven years in prison and a fine of up to $25,000.

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[Gonzotherapy]

So what I see so far is that programs may do a better job at doing criminal background checks and that is why we are not seeing the level of reported activity of abuse by staff and teachers that we are seeing coming out of our public schools..

I am not sure that is entirely accurate. The report stated that residents who were over 18 did not have sufficient background checks. Many of these programs have staff that live onsite for several days at a time. In my program some staff would live onsite for over a week or two at a time. I think resident could certainly mean staff. If the background checks were on 18 year old students, usually someone who was 18 and still in a program was court ordered. Usually a court order meant they would have a criminal history. I guarantee you no matter what that background check said those students would be allowed to stay anyways. Programs don't refuse money.

Public schools are having all these problems with teachers abusing students and programs are not experiencing this level.

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Program abuse is far above and beyond any level I have seen in a public school. In my program if a student was deemed "out of control" they were manhandled/beaten into submission. Tied up, put in isolation, sometimes for days at a time with minimal food and water. And lets not forget the fact that programs have found the perfect market to pick their victims from. What do child molesters look for? The kids who are dejected, lonely, and quiet. Damn near every kid who gets sent to a program is feeling completely lost and abandoned. They get stuck in a strange place with abusive people in power over them and are completely cut off from the outside world. Sounds to me like a child abuser's wet dream. Why don't they get reported as much? I think there are way more allegations of program abuse than public school abuse. But program victims have nobody to report to except their abuser. And you will be punished if you are still in the program and you write home or complain in the program about the abuse. You don't move up in a program unless you agree to be abused and assist in abusing others. By the time you go home if you haven't been completely brainwashed, there is very little evidence to prove your case. Why is it that communication is completely cut off? They don't let you talk to your parents until you have sufficiently accepted their psychotic ways.

[Whooter]

I am not sure that is entirely accurate. The report stated that residents who were over 18 did not have sufficient background checks. Many of these programs have staff that live onsite for several days at a time. In my program some staff would live onsite for over a week or two at a time. I think resident could certainly mean staff. If the background checks were on 18 year old students, usually someone who was 18 and still in a program was court ordered. Usually a court order meant they would have a criminal history. I guarantee you no matter what that background check said those students would be allowed to stay anyways. Programs don't refuse money.

If you check the ORS' past reports you will see that they (ORS) differentiate between the students and staff.  Resident means the kids who are being treated.
There are many kids who turn 18 during their treatment and decide to stay until it is completed.  This mandatory background check of students does not occur in the public school system so the programs are held to h a higher standard.

Program abuse is far above and beyond any level I have seen in a public school. In my program if a student was deemed "out of control" they were manhandled/beaten into submission. Tied up, put in isolation, sometimes for days at a time with minimal food and water. And lets not forget the fact that programs have found the perfect market to pick their victims from.

Those days are long gone, Gonzotherapy, programs today don’t operate like that.

What do child molesters look for? The kids who are dejected, lonely, and quiet. Damn near every kid who gets sent to a program is feeling completely lost and abandoned. They get stuck in a strange place with abusive people in power over them and are completely cut off from the outside world. Sounds to me like a child abuser's wet dream.

Actually it is much harder to abuse a child in a program because of the structure and oversight which they have.  These kids are accounted for 24/7.  Kids in public school are out all hours of the night and after school with zero oversight (sometimes for days at a time).

Why don't they get reported as much? I think there are way more allegations of program abuse than public school abuse. But program victims have nobody to report to except their abuser. And you will be punished if you are still in the program and you write home or complain in the program about the abuse. You don't move up in a program unless you agree to be abused and assist in abusing others. By the time you go home if you haven't been completely brainwashed, there is very little evidence to prove your case. Why is it that communication is completely cut off? They don't let you talk to your parents until you have sufficiently accepted their psychotic ways.

The programs I am familiar with allow phone calls to their parents (un monitored) and they can pretty much write letters home from day one.  So if any abuse occurred the parents would know about it.
The other conduit of communication is the child’s therapist.  Many of these therapists now are not affiliated with the program and work independently.  They communicate with the child’s therapist at home.  So if a child was abused (even slightly) the authorities would be notified immediately.

I am not trying to slam you Gonzotherapy, but I think you perspective comes from a place that is not occurring now a days and is obsolete.  It has been shut down and you don’t have any insight to what todays programs do or how they are run.



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[RobertBruce]

Whooter could you list off some of these programs you're referring to? Based on your comments it sounds like some of them are really trying to become as safe as public schools are. They still have a long way to go, but it's good to see them making the effort. I'll look forward to your list.

Also I posted a question to you about some of your lies over on your TTi thread. I'm interested to hear what you have to say regarding that.

[Whooter]

Whooter could you list off some of these programs you're referring to? Based on your comments it sounds like some of them are really trying to become as safe as public schools are. They still have a long way to go, but it's good to see them making the effort. I'll look forward to your list.

Also I posted a question to you about some of your lies over on your TTi thread. I'm interested to hear what you have to say regarding that.

Bruce, your questions are off topic,  take it to the OFFA section.  I will not discuss any topics with you up here until you resolve your (our) issues.  Your posts show that you are obviously trolling for attention.  Lets resolve our differences in the offa, provide a link and we can discuss it.  After we have resolved our differences I would be glad to respond to you up here.  But this is not productive or fair to other readers.



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[RobertBruce]

Well to be fair Whooter I told you my question regarding your lies was in your TTI thread. I'm not trolling anyone, I was simply letting you know there was an unanswered question waiting for you there. I did provide a link for you, but if you need it again please let me know.

As to this particular discussion, I was simply agreeing with you that public schools are safer than programs. I asked you for a list of the programs who have made those changes you lised earlier so we can all take a look at them as potential models for the industry. There was no attack intended.

[Whooter]

Well to be fair Whooter I told you my question regarding your lies was in your TTI thread. I'm not trolling anyone, I was simply letting you know there was an unanswered question waiting for you there. I did provide a link for you, but if you need it again please let me know.

As to this particular discussion, I was simply agreeing with you that public schools are safer than programs. I asked you for a list of the programs who have made those changes you lised earlier so we can all take a look at them as potential models for the industry. There was no attack intended.

I answered your question on the offa, go look.   I am willing to have a civil discussion with you, Bruce, once you get past the problem you have with my past posts.  Until that time we will keep it in the Offa.  As far as this topic goes you are free to debate someone else, but I will not answer you here on this thread.



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[RobertBruce]

I found your post in offa, I appreciate your response.

I'm not entirely sure why you're unwilling to respond to comments regarding public schools being safer in a thread dedicated to that topic. I'm interested to see the list of programs you claim have made positive changes. Why are you viewing that as an attack?

[Whooter]

November 3, 2010

A Marysville School District teacher's aide has been arrested after being accused of having a sexual relationship with a special needs student she had known for years.

Yuba Gardens School employee Elizabeth Wallis, 35, has known the alleged 17-year-old victim since he was in the eighth grade but only initiated the inappropriate relationship in the past two months, according to investigators.

The alleged acts took place off campus, authorities said.

The victim's mother, who is not being identified to protect the alleged victim, expressed outrage after learning of the accusations.

"How dare that woman do that to my child?" she said. "He's an ED student, she's a teacher's aide, she knows better."

The Marysville School District has been notified of Wallis' arrest.

Wallis is being charged with unlawful intercourse with a minor and other charges.



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[RobertBruce]

So Whooter you aren't able to provide that list then?

[Anne Bonney]

Whatever abuse that happens in schools isn't because of the methods the schools use to teach. The abuses that some from programs are BECAUSE of the very methods and techniques used. Quit comparing apples to oranges.

This is nothing more than another one if his distractions from the abuses that the TTI causes BECAUSE of their methods.

[Whooter]

Whatever abuse that happens in schools isn't because of the methods the schools use to teach. The abuses that some from programs are BECAUSE of the very methods and techniques used. Quit comparing apples to oranges.

This is nothing more than another one if his distractions from the abuses that the TTI causes BECAUSE of their methods.

I think this may be true at straight, Anne, but todays programs are not about abusive methods.  There may be a few programs that utilize abusive methods which are still treading water but for the most part kids are not getting abused.  



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[Anne Bonney]

Whatever abuse that happens in schools isn't because of the methods the schools use to teach. The abuses that some from programs are BECAUSE of the very methods and techniques used. Quit comparing apples to oranges.

This is nothing more than another one if his distractions from the abuses that the TTI causes BECAUSE of their methods.

I think this may be true at straight, Anne, but todays programs are not about abusive methods.  There may be a few programs that utilize abusive methods which are still treading water but for the most part kids are not getting abused.  

Most programs utilize some form of LGAT or confrontation 'therapy'.  THAT in itself is abusive to use on children.