Author Topic: How European Tolerance Islamized Turkey... (Read 11704 times)

grapeape · « **Reply #30 on:** August 16, 2010, 01:49:50 AM »

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

IslamIsViolent · « **Reply #31 on:** August 16, 2010, 02:49:19 PM »

Ajax. I could care less what some blatant and open antisemites have to say about what happened on the Marmara. The facts are that:

Other ships were boarded without incident. The Israelis were admittedly naive enough to believe that the Marmara would be the same and therefore were not well prepared. That being said there is no reason to believe the situation wouldn't have been as bad even with greater numbers and more preparation.
When the Marmara was boarded the passengers attacked the soldiers with pipes and kitchen knives. This is on video and indisputable. The soldiers only fired back with lethal force when every other option was exhausted. Metal pipes are lethal weapons and nobody should be expected to just sit there and be beaten to death by a mob.
They were given the option to dock at Ashdod and have their goods shipped to gaza by truck. If their goal had actually been to provide aid they would have done this. (note the comments such as "go back to Auschwitz" on the radio).
Their open and publicly stated primary goal was not to provide aid but to breach the blockade (a military blockade).
Many of the passengers as well as the organizer of the event declared their desire to be martyred on video. This was nothing less than suicide by cop to make the Israelis look bad. Their desire was to force the Israelis into a situation where they would be required to fire on "peaceful protesters".
The Israelis have good reason to block shipments of what could potentially be rockets. Every time they give the Palestinians what they want, life gets worse for them. For example, immediately after Israel withdrew from Gaza, rocket attacks increased dramatically and stayed that way. Short of flattening gaza and everybody in it, a blockade was the only way to stop the attacks (unless you can think of a more humane way).
The ultimate desired outcome for the Marmara protesters was to make Israel look bad so international pressure would force them to lift the Gaza blockade, allowing shipments of weapons and rocket attacks to resume.
Palistinian leaders have openly admitted to using women and children as human shields. The engineered suicide of a few protesters is hardly a reach.

ajax13 · « **Reply #32 on:** August 16, 2010, 03:05:54 PM »

Sockpuppet, the video to which you refer has been disputed since the moment Israeli intelligence released it and began distributing it through the Hasbara. Certainly the on-camera execution of one of the passengers by IDF forces is indisputable. And it is indisputable that former US Marine Ken O'Keefe was present when the Israeli commandos were seized after executing passengers. I couldn't hope to guess what it is that "the Palestinians" want, since there are a few million of them.

http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq

"The Significance of the Iraqi Death Estimate

The Lancet study already demonstrated that, as of July 2006, the deaths caused by the U.S. invasion of Iraq rivaled the death toll of the 1994 Rwandan genocide. Our update suggests that it has now surpassed even high estimates of deaths in Rwanda. (Note that this does not even include Iraqi deaths attributable to the 1991 Gulf War or the sanctions imposed on the population between the two wars.)

Realization of the daunting scale of the death and suffering inflicted on Iraqis should add urgency to efforts to end the occupation and to prevent such “pre-emptive” invasions or “interventions” in the future. The American people need to rein in their government and create a new kind of foreign policy, one based on cooperation, law, and diplomacy rather than violence and aggression"
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/deathcount/explanation

IslamIsViolent · « **Reply #33 on:** August 16, 2010, 03:19:17 PM »

Iraq was wrong. I won't dispute that. It was not a threat and had little if anything to do with terrorism. As far as the Marmara goes. Are you trying to argue that just because a person was a marine that they're incapable of lying?

ajax13 · « **Reply #34 on:** August 16, 2010, 03:34:07 PM »

Sockpuppet, it's hilarious that you brush off the invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation, and the ensuing chaos that has cost the lives of millions of Iraqis, not to mention a few thousand Americans, and sum it up with it was "wrong'. Clearly US imperialism is a much more lethal force than any Islamic terror. The curious thing about this terror, is that it always leads back to Western intelligence. A fellow whom I knew for many years was blown to pieces outside a nightclub in Bali by one of these "muslim" terror groups. But like all such cases, this terror group had curious links to US intelligence. The tendency is for a small group of terrorists to commit an act, or series of acts, and then lo and behold it is incumbent upon an Imperial entity to respond with military force to the terror act. Works the same all over the world. The Russians do it, the Chinese, the Americans, the British, the Frenche, etc.
I couldn't tell you whether or not Ken O'Keefe is a liar. I do know that his account is more in keeping with the known facts, specifically that Israeli commandos used fire-arms to kill people on the Marmara; some of the IDF soldiers were seized by the passengers; none of the IDF soldiers was executed by heavy iron bar, edged weapon nor mop.

IslamIsViolent · « **Reply #35 on:** August 16, 2010, 06:28:31 PM »

Quote from: "ajax13"

Sockpuppet, it's hilarious that you brush off the invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation, and the ensuing chaos that has cost the lives of millions of Iraqis, not to mention a few thousand Americans, and sum it up with it was "wrong'. Clearly US imperialism is a much more lethal force than any Islamic terror. The curious thing about this terror, is that it always leads back to Western intelligence. A fellow whom I knew for many years was blown to pieces outside a nightclub in Bali by one of these "muslim" terror groups. But like all such cases, this terror group had curious links to US intelligence.

Oh yeah, i'm sure. Now you're sounding like Iran. "The CIA did it!" Bet they did 9/11 too. No wait. That was the Jews! Seriously. That's what many in the middle east believe. The simplest and most logical explanation isn't good enough. It has to be a conspiracy! There have been over 15,000 Islamically motivated terror attacks since 9/11. Are you really saying the CIA is responsible? What would be the motive? to make Islam look bad? All one has to do is read the Qur'an or some ahadith out loud to make Islam look bad. Islam commands it's followers to kill, terrorize, enslave, convert, or subdue Unbelievers. When they do so it's not because the CIA made them do it. It's because Allah commanded it, Muhammad did it, and he's the example all "good" Muslims follow (most are admittedly peaceful hypocrites).

Quote

The tendency is for a small group of terrorists to commit an act, or series of acts, and then lo and behold it is incumbent upon an Imperial entity to respond with military force to the terror act. Works the same all over the world. The Russians do it, the Chinese, the Americans, the British, the Frenche, etc.
I couldn't tell you whether or not Ken O'Keefe is a liar. I do know that his account is more in keeping with the known facts, specifically that Israeli commandos used fire-arms to kill people on the Marmara; some of the IDF soldiers were seized by the passengers; none of the IDF soldiers was executed by heavy iron bar, edged weapon nor mop.

Maybe not, but many were seriously injured and I have no doubt that they would all have been killed had they not responded with lethal force. These weren't exactly pacifist hippies on the boat. If they were peaceful protesters they wound't have provoked the soldiers to begin with. If you beat a cop with a pipe and he resorts to using his firearm as a last resort it's your fault and nobody else.

Froderik · « **Reply #36 on:** August 16, 2010, 06:35:11 PM »

If any of you haven't read "Sleeping With The Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude" yet...highly recommended... you really should! It makes some interesting assertions concerning the scenario of cause / effect concerning 9/11, among its other historical observations. A great read, written by former Central Intelligence Agency officer Robert Baer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_with_the_Devil

ajax13 · « **Reply #37 on:** August 16, 2010, 06:53:51 PM »

Sockpuppet, terrorism has been a tactic used to provoke a specific response. So who is doing the provoking and what is the desired response? In the era of what is described as "Islamic" terror, it is not hard to tally up the score and see who has suffered the most and who has benefited the most from the terrorist acts.
IDF personnel shot people to death on the Marmara. Subsequent to that shooting, IDF personnel were taken prisoner by the passengers on the Marmara, but no IDF personnel were killed by the passengers.

Whooter · « **Reply #38 on:** August 16, 2010, 07:09:11 PM »

I would just like to point out that typically when people are losing an argument or feel insecure about their position or take their views too personally they resort to insulting or belittling the persons character, in this case calling Islamisviolent a sock puppet, i.e. (ad hominems).

Ajax13, why don’t you express your opinion without trying to attack Islamisviolents’ character? Why are you threatened by this poster disagreeing with you to the point that you have to resort to name calling? Let him express his opinion. It is just as valid as your own.

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ajax13 · « **Reply #39 on:** August 16, 2010, 07:26:51 PM »

Well, Whooter, here's my opinion. My opinion is that Islamisviolent is a sockpuppet for John D. Reuben. I believe very firmly that you, Whooter, are John D. Reuben. If you feel that using a sockpuppet is demonstrative of a character flaw, then it certainly begs the question as to why you use this particular tactic. In my opinion Reuben, you're a propagandist, and the use of Sockpuppets is intended to further your effort to influence readers on Fornits.

Whooter · « **Reply #40 on:** August 16, 2010, 07:52:30 PM »

Quote from: "ajax13"

Well, Whooter, here's my opinion. My opinion is that Islamisviolent is a sockpuppet for John D. Reuben. I believe very firmly that you, Whooter, are John D. Reuben. If you feel that using a sockpuppet is demonstrative of a character flaw, then it certainly begs the question as to why you use this particular tactic. In my opinion Reuben, you're a propagandist, and the use of Sockpuppets is intended to further your effort to influence readers on Fornits.

I am glad you expressed it as an opinion, Ajax13, out of all the people in the world that could come to fornits why would you believe that Islamisviolent is John Reuben? Is there a connection of some sort? That is very curious.

If you have been reading here at all , over the past year or so, you would notice that there are people who think I am John Rueben also, lol. This leaves us with the possibility that you think that everyone that disagrees with you must be this John Reuben fellow. He is becoming the standard icon of disagreement here.

It must suck to think that everyone that disagrees with you is the same person because in your own mind more than one person could never disagree with you. There are alot of fresh ideas out there, dont close your mind to the possibility that there are several people who disagree with you.

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ajax13 · « **Reply #41 on:** August 16, 2010, 08:05:03 PM »

I have no doubt that many people disagree with me. I have the same lack of doubt about you Whooter. Like I said, I believe very firmly that you are John D. Reuben and that you are also Islamisviolent.

Whooter · « **Reply #42 on:** August 16, 2010, 08:17:37 PM »

Quote from: "ajax13"

I have no doubt that many people disagree with me. I have the same lack of doubt about you Whooter. Like I said, I believe very firmly that you are John D. Reuben and that you are also Islamisviolent.

....and thats okay, Ajax13, if that make you feel safe. You could easily be yet another one of Dysfunction junctions aliases, but that doesnt matter to me how many logins you have. I express my opinions honestly and dont resort to attacks because someone disagrees with me.

If you want to continue to believe that Islamisviolent is me then that is fine, there is no way to prove or disprove what you chose to believe, just debate him on equal ground without attacking him for his beliefs. If you think about it, on an intellectual level, it really doesn't matter does it?

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ajax13 · « **Reply #43 on:** August 16, 2010, 08:30:14 PM »

Whether or not you think it's okay, or fine, I think that you, Whooter, are John D. Reuben, and that Islamisviolent is a sockpuppet that you use in your effort to dispense propaganda on Fornits.

Whooter · « **Reply #44 on:** August 16, 2010, 08:35:39 PM »

Quote from: "ajax13"

Whether or not you think it's okay, or fine, I think that you, Whooter, are John D. Reuben, and that Islamisviolent is a sockpuppet that you use in your effort to dispense propaganda on Fornits.

.. and that is okay, Ajax13, I am not criticizing you for this, I can believe that you are one of RobertBruces' sockpuppets too, which I believe you are. I just dont choose to point it out on every post. You have to remember that his is an open forum and we are all free to believe what ever we want. That is one of the strengths of having it open like this.
Think about it, Ajax13.

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