Tough Love- nonsense

[Troll Control]

I worked at Daytop in 1996 and I can tell you for a fact there were kids running around with signs and toilet seats.  That's true.  What you're saying (that it stopped in '80s) is totally false.

[odie]

1996 huh. What facility did you work at? You sure it was Daytop cause I worked there in '96 and nothing remotely like that happened.

No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles

[Troll Control]

I also worked at Daytop ADU/Fox Run in 1995 and 1996.  Kids were wearing toilet seats and signs at that time.  I remember when I went for my interview I saw a kid with a toilet seat around his neck and a sign that said "I have a shitty attitude.  Confront me."  I remember thinking "how bizarre."

So, yeah, it was happening at least as late as 1996, but I can't say what happened after that.

And yes, I'm quite sure that I know where I was working.

[odie]

Ya somehow I figured it was you DJ and I'm stating for a fact that you are a damn liar. Now go fetch your lawyers cause I'll prove once and for all what a bullshit artist you are.

The lust for power, for dominating others, inflames the heart more than any other passion
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140440607/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Tacitus

[Troll Control]

On 2006-01-24 11:38:00, odie wrote:

"Ya somehow I figured it was you DJ and I'm stating for a fact that you are a damn liar. Now go fetch your lawyers cause I'll prove once and for all what a bullshit artist you are.

The lust for power, for dominating others, inflames the heart more than any other passion
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140440607/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Tacitus

"

Odie, don't flatter yourself.  I don't need a lawyer to deal with a mental defective like you, son.

I guess you didn't work at ADU or Fox Run, because if you did, you would have seen what I saw.  How else would I even know that anything like that ever happened before?  I didn't go to Daytop, nor was I familiar with its history.

I only know what I experienced.  I don't claim to know what you saw or heard at whatever facility you worked at.  Don't you think you're being a little bit pompous to assume that you know what I saw when you weren't even there?

Odie, you're pretty much just an idiot.  Plain and simple.  You're a Daytop product.  You fit like a square peg in a round hole in the real world.  If you think that you're going to control what I do, you're sadly mistaken.  If you're interested in controlling people, go back to Daytop where people will say you're right because they have to.  Here you're just another poster.

[Troll Control]

On 2006-01-24 11:38:00, odie wrote:

"Ya somehow I figured it was you DJ and I'm stating for a fact that you are a damn liar. Now go fetch your lawyers cause I'll prove once and for all what a bullshit artist you are.

The lust for power, for dominating others, inflames the heart more than any other passion
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140440607/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Tacitus

"

"go get your lawyers"? :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   who is this idiot?  you've got some issues, dude.  bigtime.

[odie]

DJ I think you been hiding with that bag over your head too long. We both know your full of crap otherwise you would have reported what you saw, I mean that's how our last debate started...you claiming you reported something you heard. So if they were having kids wearing toilet seats how come you didn't report that? And if there was a report of a facility that had kids wearing toilet seats you know damn well that would have been splattered all over the front pages of the NY papers. So just answer that question. I mean you are usually the one asking that of others so it should be no trouble at all.

As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people.   On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
--H.L. Mencken

[Troll Control]

Report a toilet seat around someone's neck?  It's not illegal.  What would I report it for, or to whom?  I don't think it does anything to help the kid.  I never gave out consequences like that, but lots of other staff did.  Kids wre always on LE's wearing signs and other props like the toilet seats.  I found it stupid and unhelpful, but not illegal,  Just dumb, like the uneducated junkie staff that considered it helpful in some bizarre way.

Front page of the newspaper?  What world do you live in, man?  There are blatant abuses like rape, beatings, starvation and torture going on right now in WWASPS facilities and THAT hardly ever makes the news, and never in the mainstream media.

I'm telling you that I would have no idea about toilet seats being worn around necks had I not seen it.  Where in the world would I even come up with an idea like that?  Moreover, how could I make up something that I've never even heard of before?

Maybe you worked in an adult facility that was run differently, but ask anyone who was at ADU/Fox Run at the same time I was and they'll tell you the same thing I did.  I'm sorry, Odie, but you're just plain wrong about that.  And not having been there yourself you really can't comment intelligently on the subject.

I forgot to log in, buddy.  I'm not hiding behind any bag.  You certainly don't inspire any fright in me.  Like I said before, I view you as pretty much a mental defective.  Your arguments make little to no sense and you comment on things that you just have no knowledge about.

I'm sure in time there will be some readers who will validate my statements.  I don't need that validation because I saw it first-hand, but maybe someone will help you understand the truth through their experience.  Of course, you'll probably just call them liars, but hey, that's how you operate, bro.

[odie]

Lets see now...hmm... I'd think there must have been some agency you were required to report such unethical behavior to, unless of course you don't believe it was unethical to put a toilet seat over a kid's head? I mean c'mon now dude don't tell me you you were ok with letting a classic case of emotional abuse to a child go on without saying something? Mental defect?...nah, just someone thats pissed off right now at somebody that let that go on without saying a word, that is if it really happened. I will say this, if I saw it heads would have rolled, and that would have been after I took the toilet seat and had the staff member who put it there wear it around his or her neck.

Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

[Troll Control]

http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?S=1069053

Looks like the use of humiliation tactics like the clownsuit and others were still being used by Daytop as late as 2003.  Odie, once again, you have shown yourself to be, let's say, a little bit "factually challenged."

I call it "full of shit," but whatever.  It took exactly one Google search to show without doubt that you have no idea what you're talking about again.

[Troll Control]

On 2006-01-24 13:03:00, odie wrote:

"Lets see now...hmm... I'd think there must have been some agency you were required to report such unethical behavior to, unless of course you don't believe it was unethical to put a toilet seat over a kid's head? I mean c'mon now dude don't tell me you you were ok with letting a classic case of emotional abuse to a child go on without saying something? Mental defect?...nah, just someone thats pissed off right now at somebody that let that go on without saying a word, that is if it really happened. I will say this, if I saw it heads would have rolled, and that would have been after I took the toilet seat and had the staff member who put it there wear it around his or her neck.

Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

"

No, I did bring up stuff like this regularly to my boss.  his response would always be along the lines of "We've been doing this thing a lot longer than you have.  Your education really means nothing if you can't see were helping people here.  Our program works and that's waht matters."

My remedy for a situation that I was powerless to change was to leave.  I now speak up about things I've seen and heard so that, hopefully, it won't continue to happen.

Again, I say that I thought it was stupid and unproductive, not "abusive."  If I were going to report any emotional abuse at Daytop, I'd have to report it every day.  That place is run on emotional abuse.  "The seat" was relatively innocuous compared to the mindfucking in general.

[Troll Control]

On 2006-01-24 13:03:00, odie wrote:

"Lets see now...hmm... I'd think there must have been some agency you were required to report such unethical behavior to, unless of course you don't believe it was unethical to put a toilet seat over a kid's head? I mean c'mon now dude don't tell me you you were ok with letting a classic case of emotional abuse to a child go on without saying something? Mental defect?...nah, just someone thats pissed off right now at somebody that let that go on without saying a word, that is if it really happened. I will say this, if I saw it heads would have rolled, and that would have been after I took the toilet seat and had the staff member who put it there wear it around his or her neck.

Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

"

First it never happened.  Now it's my fault that it did.  Yes, your resoning skills show clearly that you're a mental defective.  

If all you want to do is bash me, get on with it.  That's fine.  But don't say some stupid shit like "It never happened" and then say it's my fault because I "let it happen."  That is truly moronic, Odie.

[Troll Control]

On 2006-01-24 13:06:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?S=1069053



Looks like the use of humiliation tactics like the clownsuit and others were still being used by Daytop as late as 2003.  Odie, once again, you have shown yourself to be, let's say, a little bit "factually challenged."



I call it "full of shit," but whatever.  It took exactly one Google search to show without doubt that you have no idea what you're talking about again."

i guess that lawyer wasn't neceesary after all.  odie, i think you're the one who's been proven to be "full of crap".  obviously this stuff was still going on twenty years after you said it was stopped.  is channel 8 news full of crap too, odie?  why do you lie like that and try to say this other guy's lying when it's obvious that you are?

[Paul St. John]

On 2006-01-23 07:51:00, odie wrote:

"No doubt there were some wacked out counselors and directors when I was working for Daytop. And yes it is one big money machine. Paul, I'm not against what you're saying, I agree with some of it but times change. When I was there in the 90's it was totally different from the early days of the signs, shaved heads, drinking priviledges, etc.and yes it has a ways to go and my hope is that with the new licensing regulations for the staff, they will purge all the old timers and it will get lots better.

For the community to have 10% to 25% of its men unable to vote or unable to access credit or other privileges of citizenship for the rest of their lives in some states creates a permanently diminished
group within society.
http://www.urban.org/authors/travis.html' target='_new'>Jeremy Travis, Urban Institute

"

Odie,
You are more optimistic about Daytop then I.  Personally, I would like to see them put out of business- not regulated.  As long ago, as it was, I don't like being fucked with!

Paul

PS If the goverment stopped carrying them, I project that they would shrink smaller and smaller, and probably be out of business within a few years.  If they were to somehow survive, they would have to recreate their philosophy, and probably hire all new pwople, and become more or less a new program all together- one that would not be able to exist while being so harmful... So really when all is said and done, it is in the goverment's hands, but not only in the gov't's hands.  Perhaps, I will shut them down.  i haven't decided what it means to me yet[ This Message was edited by: Paul St. John on 2006-01-24 15:40 ]

[odie]

Hey DJ, the Daytop program you referred to in Connecticut is not affiliated with Daytop Village in NY. Now I wonder why you failed to mention that? Maybe thats where the confusion here is. I hope that someone with such a high intellect could have seen that and not have a mental defected mind have to point that out to you but then again maybe you hoped nobody else noticed it. So back to the original question, why didn't you report what you saw to the proper agency?

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trust either of them
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679737898/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> P.J. O'Rourke