NOTICE TO POTENTIAL PARENTS

[HydeFan]

Seriously Antigen, I am actually interested in your story.  You are obviously passionate.  I think you are provide a great service here.  Do you have the backfill on your experience that led you to this place?

I know some about Seed.  What was a Seed chicklette?  How are you a drug war POW? And what does Apostate mean?

[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-10 23:02 ]

[Antigen]

What does it matter if you think I'm irrelevant?

The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this.
--Albert Einstein, My First Impression of the U.S.A., 1921

[HydeFan]

I think your presence on a Hyde board is irrelevant....or better stated 99% of your posts.

But as arrogant and heartless as you think I am, I posted right from the beginning my strongest sympathies for any Seed survivor.  One of my best friends is, and his experience was something that Congress should know about and regulate.

Based on a fairly extensive comparison, however, I found that the Seed (and the extremely abusive programs) are off the charts comparred to Hyde.

I have no doubt Hyde may not work for many.  But I also know many that it worked for, and I also know Hyde does not fit many of the definitions of the types of groups that I think are more clearly abusive (LGATs for example).  There are similarities, but if you had to map them out, I think depending on when in their history you are talking about, they probably fall closer to the line between actually being wonderfully theraputic for certain people, and abusive for others.  People will rave here about how the numbers of benefitted people is tremendously small, but I don't think they have the numbers to really show that.....just that it was bad for them.

Personally, I have no issue with "here's what happened to me, here's what I saw, and here's how it feels to me".  I think there is an undeniable truth to that.

To say Hyde is the devil and evil and make all sorts of extrapolations and have everyone nod their head on things like LGATs and articles on Gulags and the like seems to miss the real value here.  If they just told their story and let that speak for itself.

For instance the person who keeps claiming Joe Gauld came back in time to insure he would not graduate and it has haunted him to this day, left out the whole story of why that happened.  You may not think its relevant.  I know the school well enough to know it is likely the nug of the matter.

Antigen, the people on this board love to hate me because it gives them an object to draw fire, but for people who really suffered abuse, even if at the hands of Joe Guald, I could not be more sympathetic.  I just don't take innuendo for fact.  Its not that hard to camoflague a story enough to Hyde one's identity.  And if that person is accurate, their story might be quite powerful.  But I also say X number of people leave because they became embroiled in profoundly challenging matters of personal growth and integrity and they quit.

Anyway, your name is not anonymous, and I am presuming as a founder of this board, you have shared your personal story and that it could be used as an example.  Believe that if you want....I actually am fairly new to all this and find it relatively shocking (the stuff I read about seeds).  I would be interested in knowing more.

[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-11 08:04 ]

[Anonymous]

Mr Hydefan, you seem to be asking questions about everyone else, but you don't give much info about yourself.  What campus do you work at?  This would give us a little more insight into you and the school.  Possibly your campus is better run than the others??

[Anonymous]

he's not going to tell u who he is because this is part of his arrogance.  I bet he is one of the Gauld Clan!!  Sounds like them!

[HydeFan]

Folks, Ginger's name is public.  Your, mine, the rest of ours, ain't.

I am actually less concerned with people's names than I am with the backfill of their story that gets left out in the retelling.  

And without knowing bias, its hard to assess accuracy of comments, especially subjective ones.

I tried to use some objective statements to show at least some reasonable level of distorion was occurring.  

That got twisted to the point of suggesting I support rape. (No doubt the next post will actually accuse me of actually committing rapes.)

Either way, believe it or not, I am very sympathetic to real abuse and am fascinated by what Ginger has started here (not necessarily re: Hyde but the overall theme), and I can only imagine there is a powerful story behind that.

[Lars]

To Hydefan,

You should have some understanding for the kids who have had mental health issues treated as character problems by the know-it-alls at Hyde.  Do you have any idea how terrible that is?  Clinical depression is a horrible, debilitating illness and to have it labled "laziness" or "attitude" is just ignorant and cruel.

Or, how about highly intelligent students whose college prospects get screwed because of the grading system that brings down their average because they aren't considered "leaders" in class?  

Try to have some understanding of why people on this board are so angry.  It's not just a bunch of malcontents.  The place was, and from the comments of some of the posters whose experience was more recent, still is deeply and fundamentally flawed (and even dangerous).

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-11 08:02:00, HydeFan wrote:

Based on a fairly extensive comparison, however, I found that the Seed (and the extremely abusive programs) are off the charts comparred to Hyde.

Well, your perception that the mindfuck at Hyde is significantly different from the mindfuck at any other Synanon/Lifesprings based program is largely irrelavent.

Here, go over to the Seed Discussion Forum and try telling some of the pro-Seedlings how abusive their program was compared to Hyde. Please, don't take my word for it. Just try it yourself.

I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment, to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-30 10:22:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-10-11 08:02:00, HydeFan wrote:


Based on a fairly extensive comparison, however, I found that the Seed (and the extremely abusive programs) are off the charts comparred to Hyde.

Well, your perception that the mindfuck at Hyde is significantly different from the mindfuck at any other Synanon/Lifesprings based program is largely irrelavent.



Here, go over to the Seed Discussion Forum and try telling some of the pro-Seedlings how abusive their program was compared to Hyde. Please, don't take my word for it. Just try it yourself.

I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment, to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer

"

You seem to be missing the point.  I only know of Seeds what I have read.  I know of Hyde from personal experience.  My experience was better than many and transformative in my life.  

But one thing I would never do is go to the Seeds board and pretend to have insight or input into what really went on there.

You, on the other hand, seem to feel free to kibbitz on the Hyde board and lump Hyde and seeds and all other "abusive schools" together.

I do think Seeds was off the charts compared to Hyde, but that isn't the point.  My point was, what motivates you to keep trying to stir the pot and make points about a place you have had no involvement with.

On the face of it, it looks like you have at least a slight conflict of interest in that this is your website, and you have an interest in making it popular probably so you can sell advertising some day or something.

If you want to give disgruntled Hyde people a forum (many smiling zeros, people who didn't get it, and probably a few with legitimate beefs) why not just set that up and let it be. Instead, you keep jumping in pretending to have knowledge and experience with Hyde (implicitly).

That seems fairly duplicitous to me.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-30 09:52:00, Lars wrote:

"To Hydefan,



You should have some understanding for the kids who have had mental health issues treated as character problems by the know-it-alls at Hyde.  Do you have any idea how terrible that is?  Clinical depression is a horrible, debilitating illness and to have it labled "laziness" or "attitude" is just ignorant and cruel.



Or, how about highly intelligent students whose college prospects get screwed because of the grading system that brings down their average because they aren't considered "leaders" in class?  



Try to have some understanding of why people on this board are so angry.  It's not just a bunch of malcontents.  The place was, and from the comments of some of the posters whose experience was more recent, still is deeply and fundamentally flawed (and even dangerous).



"

You're absolutely right, Lars.  The fundamental flaws you sensed at Hyde years ago persist.  One major difference is that now websites like this one provide a forum to spread the word about Hyde's frequently destructive, arrogant, self-righteous, and hypocritical policies and practices.  While some Hyde fans are quick to come to the school's defense (I don't question that some people feel helped by the school), many, many others clearly see through Hyde's duplicitous PR tactics.  There are now so many stories about Hyde roaming around the Internet from credible sources.  While some Hyde veterans continue to support the school, more and more people are coming out of the woodwork to tell their stories about Hyde's gross mishandling of students' emotional problems and arrogant interactions with both students and parents.  I've now heard of many parents who were considering Hyde and, after reading these posts and talking with parents who have left Hyde, have decided to look elsewhere.  These postings have alerted many people that they need to look underneath and behind Hyde's slick website and publications, and dig for behind-the-scenes anecdotes.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-30 09:52:00, Lars wrote:

"To Hydefan,



You should have some understanding for the kids who have had mental health issues treated as character problems by the know-it-alls at Hyde.  Do you have any idea how terrible that is?  Clinical depression is a horrible, debilitating illness and to have it labled "laziness" or "attitude" is just ignorant and cruel.



Or, how about highly intelligent students whose college prospects get screwed because of the grading system that brings down their average because they aren't considered "leaders" in class?  



Try to have some understanding of why people on this board are so angry.  It's not just a bunch of malcontents.  The place was, and from the comments of some of the posters whose experience was more recent, still is deeply and fundamentally flawed (and even dangerous).



"

Why don't you rebuttal this, Hydefan?  I notice you are very good at "talking the talk" as Hyde says!  In fact when I read your posts it is so obvious how brainwashed you are by the way you speak!  You use all the "cliches" Hyde teaches the students and parents.  "Don't get it", "smiling zero's"??  You sound EXACTLY like Joe Gauld and the rest of the losers who can't survive in the world as it is, so they Hide behind the compound of Hyde!!

Get a life Hydefan and stop insulting Antigen.  At least she is doing a service here by welcoming Hyde's disgruntled families a place to vent! This is certainly more than Hyde offered us!  At least we are not censored here or punished for speaking out!  It makes me want to vomit even thinking about the chain and ball Hyde had attached to all of us while we were there!  Character Boarding School, my ass!!!  I hope families considering Hyde come to this site and realize the lies Hyde puts out in their materials!!  Cult, Cult, Cult!

[Anonymous]

Why don't you rebuttal this, Hydefan?  I notice you are very good at "talking the talk" as Hyde says!  In fact when I read your posts it is so obvious how brainwashed you are by the way you speak!  You use all the "cliches" Hyde teaches the students and parents.  "Don't get it", "smiling zero's"??  You sound EXACTLY like Joe Gauld and the rest of the losers who can't survive in the world as it is, so they Hide behind the compound of Hyde!!



Get a life Hydefan and stop insulting Antigen.  At least she is doing a service here by welcoming Hyde's disgruntled families a place to vent! This is certainly more than Hyde offered us!  At least we are not censored here or punished for speaking out!  It makes me want to vomit even thinking about the chain and ball Hyde had attached to all of us while we were there!  Character Boarding School, my ass!!!  I hope families considering Hyde come to this site and realize the lies Hyde puts out in their materials!!  Cult, Cult, Cult!"

Why would I rebut Lars?  Why rebut anyone?  Why do you feel the need to defend Antigen.  You don't see any relevance with questioning people's motives?  At least mine are clear.  I am a Hyde fan.  I asked Antigen some nice questions and tried to be sympathetic.  Instead she avoided my questions and came back attacking me.

She ways

Well, your preception that the mindfuck at Hyde is significantly different from the mindfuck at any other Synanon/Lifesprings-based programs is largely irrelevant

Well, Hyde isn't a Synanon/Lifespring based program, nor is the comparisson irrelevant, when it serves IMHO as Antigens primary raison d'etre.

From what I've read (and I don't presume to know reality of Seeds), Hyde seems like at the other end of the spectrum.  I was certainly never locked up at Hyde, like many seem to be at Seeds.

The point is, Antigen keeps posting on the Hyde site implicitly pretending to know something about it.  In my book, that makes her a fraud.

That you are drawn to her somehow is also illustrative.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-03 12:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

Why don't you rebuttal this, Hydefan?  I notice you are very good at "talking the talk" as Hyde says!  In fact when I read your posts it is so obvious how brainwashed you are by the way you speak!  You use all the "cliches" Hyde teaches the students and parents.  "Don't get it", "smiling zero's"??  You sound EXACTLY like Joe Gauld and the rest of the losers who can't survive in the world as it is, so they Hide behind the compound of Hyde!!





Get a life Hydefan and stop insulting Antigen.  At least she is doing a service here by welcoming Hyde's disgruntled families a place to vent! This is certainly more than Hyde offered us!  At least we are not censored here or punished for speaking out!  It makes me want to vomit even thinking about the chain and ball Hyde had attached to all of us while we were there!  Character Boarding School, my ass!!!  I hope families considering Hyde come to this site and realize the lies Hyde puts out in their materials!!  Cult, Cult, Cult!"

Why would I rebut Lars?  Why rebut anyone?  Why do you feel the need to defend Antigen.  You don't see any relevance with questioning people's motives?  At least mine are clear.  I am a Hyde fan.  I asked Antigen some nice questions and tried to be sympathetic.  Instead she avoided my questions and came back attacking me.



She ways

Well, your preception that the mindfuck at Hyde is significantly different from the mindfuck at any other Synanon/Lifesprings-based programs is largely irrelevant

Well, Hyde isn't a Synanon/Lifespring based program, nor is the comparisson irrelevant, when it serves IMHO as Antigens primary raison d'etre.



From what I've read (and I don't presume to know reality of Seeds), Hyde seems like at the other end of the spectrum.  I was certainly never locked up at Hyde, like many seem to be at Seeds.



The point is, Antigen keeps posting on the Hyde site implicitly pretending to know something about it.  In my book, that makes her a fraud.



That you are drawn to her somehow is also illustrative."

Nice questions?  You are sympathetic?  I don't think calling someone a fraud is being sympathetic!  You my dear friend are the one who should be questioned about your motives!!  What Lars is saying is true and this is probably why you have nothing to say!!

[tommyfromhyde1]

:smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  

Not a place upon earth might be so happy as America. Her situation is remote from all the wrangling world, and she has nothing to do but to trade with them.
--Thomas Paine

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-04 10:11:00, tommyfromhyde1 wrote:

" :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  

Not a place upon earth might be so happy as America. Her situation is remote from all the wrangling world, and she has nothing to do but to trade with them.
--Thomas Paine

"

I think it's remarkably, and pathetically, ironic that Joe Gauld is widely know for his put-downs and arrogant, patronizing behavior.  Isn't that a typical Hyde paradox?  Some senior Hyde staff extol Hyde's "virtues" of integrity and concern and then treat people in ways that are diametrically opposed to these virtues.  While not all Hyde staff are this hypocritical, quite a few are.