New to Forum- Looking to hear from old staff and students.

[sabro]

Geoff posted on rimoftheworld.net. Everyone he knows from Cedu had pretty hard lives after leaving. That got me thinking of all the kids that I hung out with 12 years ago and what came of them.

I read the other threads...Boy, lots of hostility...

I was just wondering what became of the kids I knew from 1991-2 or so.

I was on staff for about a year, and came in to fill gaps for about four more. I was part of a crowd that tried to change things- brought in austensibly to help with accreditation and strengthen the academics.

I still run into Russ Decker from time to time, although I haven't seen him lately. He married Kim, the receptionist. I see Donna Dillman- now married- at school functions. Dennis Docksteader lives up the street at Music Camp. I haven't heard from Luke Nemo all summer- but he tends to disappear for long periods of time. I also see Carl Kent- but not since the closure.

I went back to public school after I left. I still do some outdoor education, but I just took a job as an assistant Principal, and I am a little busy.

Justin, Tom (x2), Rachael (x2), Mary, Tyler, John, ... and so many others... where are you?

Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.
--James Madison

[vvigil]

I was at cedu from 1991-1993. Your name (or is that your name?) doesn't sound familiar. Who are you? I'm Victoria- was in the peer group that graduated Dec 1993.

[sabro]

My name is Sabro Foster. I worked there for about a year, mostly in Challenge- I taught History, Math and English, and then later I helped out part time at the middle school. I hung out with Luke Nemo.

I almost forgot- I see Guy Bonnano all the time. He's the Principal at Rim High School.

BTW, I'm not great at names. After 18 years of teaching, I've had literally thousands of students.

I would also be interested in hearing from Robert, Sean, Dave, Jen, Heather, Marie or Jade...

I did correspond with Bryan Felscher briefly on a motorcycle website, and then he just disappeared.

Also if you remember any of the Quiroz family- Robert, Laura, Abbot, Linda... I see some of them around Running Springs[ This Message was edited by: sabro on 2005-07-28 14:28 ]

[Anonymous]

Hey Sabro.  Its me- Bryan, I had a really rough time after leaving.  I'm doing very well now.  2 kids, engaged to be married, General Manager of an Aerospace machine shop, considering a new home in Temecula or Murrieta.  Life's mostly good.

Still have that bike, but I chopped the front, made a custom swinger my self spending only $100 on Steel- machined I think 26 different components and welded it all up at 47 degrees with a 75 inch wheelbase and strutted it hardtail.  You wouldn't recognize the bike anymore!  Now, I ride mostly dirt, and only 2 strokes on the street.

I think when I talked to you it was about 4 years ago.  Take care, and good luck.  You and Luke were about the only staff their I could ever look back on fondly.

CEDU is a cult, not a school.

I am disgusted now- being 29 years old and a father of two, and I consider myself a good man.

Do a search on this site.  A lot of the people you know are DEAD from suicide.

Sasheen, Rory, Beau-  and there's more.  My little brother from their killed himself.  I don't even recall his name.  They were failed and their adolescence raped by CEDU.

I'm disgusted, that people like you, SABRO- good men like yourself could ever remain on social terms with men and women like GUY BONNANO, or RUSS DECKER, or DONNA DILLMAN, after what YOU KNOW they made kids do and go through!

I regret I ever thought you were a stand-up guy.

You're just a complacent, common, spineless man.

[CEDU IS A CULT]

Hey Sabro. Its me- Bryan, I had a really rough time after leaving. I'm doing very well now. 2 kids, engaged to be married, General Manager of an Aerospace machine shop, considering a new home in Temecula or Murrieta. Life's mostly good.

Still have that bike, but I chopped the front, made a custom swinger my self spending only $100 on Steel- machined I think 26 different components and welded it all up at 47 degrees with a 75 inch wheelbase and strutted it hardtail. You wouldn't recognize the bike anymore! Now, I ride mostly dirt, and only 2 strokes on the street.

I think when I talked to you it was about 4 years ago. Take care, and good luck. You and Luke were about the only staff their I could ever look back on fondly.

CEDU is a cult, not a school.

I am disgusted now- being 29 years old and a father of two, and I consider myself a good man.

Do a search on this site. A lot of the people you know are DEAD from suicide.

Sasheen, Rory, Beau- and there's more. My little brother from their killed himself. I don't even recall his name. They were failed and their adolescence raped by CEDU.

I'm disgusted, that people like you, SABRO- good men like yourself could ever remain on social terms with men and women like GUY BONNANO, or RUSS DECKER, or DONNA DILLMAN, after what YOU KNOW they made kids do and go through!

I regret I ever thought you were a stand-up guy.

You're just a complacent, common, spineless man.

[Anonymous]

:eek: I found a website that has CEDU discussion going on. http://www.rimoftheworld.net check it out.

[OverLordd]

::has a moment of mourning for the dead that Byran talked about::  :sad:

[Anonymous]

Hey, before you hang Sabro up by his heels, If he still lives in the Running Springs area, it's a small town and you can't help but run into people you knew, whether you want to or not!  I heard that Guy Bonanno is the principal of Rim High, so if Sabro was a teacher, it's logical he'd have some sort of contact with him.  I hear Joel Smith was there, too.  Donna used to be in Search and Rescue up there, so I imagine she is out and about the town, too.  Russ Decker?  I heard he left CEDU and is going to school to be a legit therapist.

[sabro]

I got rid of my Savage-- I guess about 4 years ago. The guy took off the rear seat, re-did the fender and the exhaust and painted it a really deep green. It looks great... I'm looking for a new bike now.

Sorry you feel that I am spinless and complacent. (I admit to being quite common.) I worked at CEDU for about 14 months when I was 27 years old. (Younger than you are now.) I really had hopes that that school could do some good for kids, and guys like me and Luke and Ron Davis fought hard to make positive changes. When I saw something I didn't like I brought it up with Bill Valentine, Rudy and Tim Brace. It didn't make me popular among the staff- and I was continually accused of being not a "team player" and "running an underground." I have no regrets.

I worked with Guy at the high school for one term after that, and I see him, Russ and Donna at community events. It's not like I hang out with them- although I don't hate them at all. (It's just not the way I am.)

I try to get together with Luke as often as possible, but he has this habbit of disappearing for months or years at a time.

I get Christmas cards from Mariana with pictures of her two boys.

I see that you have heard from Jackson... Are there other people you are in touch with? (Jackson still has the record for "The Ten Commandments" over at Alpine.)

Totalitarianism is like a specter which drinks the blood of the living and so achieves reality, while the victims go on existing as a mass of living corpses.

http://www.whitecloud.com/fight_vs_totalitarianism.htm' target='_new'>Karl Jaspers, The Fight Against Totalitarianism (1963)

[Anonymous]

I don't know you---didn't go to that school but for what it;s worth I think some of the posters here ought to grow the fuck up

It's a free country I sure wouldn't let anyone tell me who I should be associating with and on what terms

If their whole opinion of me changed because I had friends/associates they didn't like---well Id just try to view it as an opportunity for them to deal with some seriously unresolved issues---that a lot of us put to rest around 3rd grade

[sabro]

I've been in education now for over 18 years, and I have always been proud of the kind of work I have done. I spent two hours looking over old posts on this forum and on the cedualumni site to read of the suffering Cedu caused. It was a small part of my career, and now I feel the need to find out more about what happened- what were the consequences and long term effects of the program.

Anony- Thanks for the kind words. I'm more curious now than ever before about what is going on with those young people I knew. Was it a Cult? It certainly had the hallmarks of one. I remember when Mel visited and how revered he was. Never "got" that part. It's gone now. Dead. (Although you know many of these people are still working with kids in capacities that they really don't understand.)

You don't know how stupid I feel when I find out what kind of pain and damage I helped to inflict. I sincerely tried to accomplish good things- and I think the bulk of the staff there really cared. Although it doesn't compensate for the pain and anger that it caused, I do think the program did some kids some good. (Buying a guy an ice cream cone after you torture and kill his dog doesn't make it right.) I always hoped the program could be "fixed" and never knew how sick and twisted it really was.

I am a professional, and as long as I stick to what I know- teaching, I am fine. But therapy, counseling? No degree or training in the area- I don't consider myself a therapist and I never have. Don't give amatuers, however well intentioned, such control though- it's like giving dynamite to a toddler.

Also, I used to run into Jack and Matt a lot. Both were there far longer than I was and Jack regrets the whole experience. Carla Malewicz is a counselor at Bloomington Middle school. (I was at Bloomington HS, so we corresponded a little.)

Dan Tarabek, I think the IRS is looking for you again. God bless you bro, but pay your taxes!

There was an investigation back in the early 90's. A staff member named Beth contacted the SB county DA, and they interviewed a bunch of us. Cedu lawyers contacted us about 6 months after the DA's group and individual interviews. About ten years ago I had to give a deposition about the disappearance of a kid named Blake from the middle school. I was named in the wrongful death suit ahead of the school, but I didn't have much to say. I think the suit was dismissed.

I see Beth Hallmark fairly often. She has fibriomyalgia and is having a bit of a problem working full days.

I ran into Tyler Mars once- he was rushing off to go snowboarding- must have been 12 years ago...

I am not a great believer in school. School is primarily an institution for the perpetuation of adolescence...The thought that school educates is not one I have accepted yet...Thank God I am not young. I could not survive this horror.
--Peter F. Drucker

[ This Message was edited by: sabro on 2005-07-29 15:23 ]

[Anonymous]

Well, I do hate them, anyone like them, and anyone who's their friend.  I've never been the type to give people phony smiles, and never been able to resist the urge to tell people like Guy or Russ exactly what I think of them.  Did you know that Russ Decker participated in a gang rape?  Did you know that he lit a homeless man on fire?  Come on, Sabro- you heard him cop to that in raps, and if you didn't, there's others here besides me that heard it.

And what about Guy and strange conversations about fucking dogs, and sicker shit than that?

Or Donna Dillman on OUR Wilderness Challenge Rap- making everyone in a circle state whether or NOT, they'd jerked off during their solo?  You were there with me?  You don't remember?  I have a 15 year old little sister, and if I ever found out someone like Donna or Guy or Russ was having the kind of inappropriate (to state it mildly,  for a mind in denial) conversation with her, I couldn't just SIT there and "complain" to Bill Valentine, or Tim Brace about it!!!

You should have called the cops or some kind of authority, but you failed us, because you're nothing but a coward!

27 years old, huh?  And still no balls whatsoever at that age.  Maybe you'll grow some someday.  Until then, you're just another guy who stood in the background and watched, and made a few mild suggestions, maybe, and now some kids are DEAD from suicide that you KNOW, because you were too much of a coward.  And what did you do after you left?  Did you whistle blow?

NO!  Guilty as the rest of them.

I don't hate you for it.  Most men in this world would have done the same.  Stand for something or fall for everything.  Well, you and everyone else who saw, and was shocked, but did NOTHING, failed us all, and countless kids are DEAD or ruined from that, and they could have all been saved.

What to do now?  I'd start by not giving Russ, Guy, or Donna that friendly smile you probably give them, and when you see Guy, think about him BRUTALIZING Beau Riddle over and over and over and over again in raps- verbally tearing him down, until he had NO SELF WORTH LEFT.

Then think about him in London, putting a gun in his mouth and blowing his brains out.

Or Sasheen Dobson.  Beautiful Indian girl.  Very innocent, and forced to give exacting details by Guy Bonnano of her entire masturbation history to all of us, including 17-18 year old boys and older staff men.  SHE WAS 13 FUCKING YEARS OLD!

Younger than my little sister.  I'd kill a man, if they did that to my sister.

But like everyone else, you just went with the flow- maybe some half-ass complaints, and then left without reporting a thing.

Fuck You for doing that.

You were 27 years old, and old enough to make a stand!

But you didn't, and now you give Guy, Donna, and Russ the friendly nod, and that sociable smile.

Fucking spineless coward.  My last words to you.

[sabro]

So much for "doing well now." Your post pisses me off, especially the hit and run "My last words to you." approach.

I came to Cedu as a teacher and I did my job well. I wrote curriculum, I helped them earn accreditation. On most days I had a good time, whether cleaning, teaching or playing basketball. At the time I saw students who's lives had been spiraling out of control seem to be getting the help they needed. At least they weren't on the streets or on drugs or participating in some bizarre high risk behavior. Extereme measures for extreme circumstances. So I thought...

No, I never heard Russ cop to either setting a homeless man on fire or to gang rapes. And you have no idea of what conversations I had with the deputy DA, child protective services, or what I did do about the stuff I saw or what I did not do. Do you know for a fact that none of us, including Beth, Jack, Mariana and Luke blew the whistle, or has Cedu taught you to just stick your head as far up your ass as you can and spout off with some kind of adolescent self rightousness? Rudy has taught you well.

You of all people know how much time I spent in Brace's office, and how I was pulled from raps and propheets. (Such a punishment...) You have never heard me say or do anything abusive, or inappropriate or even cuss. Save your "fuck you's" for the people that really deserve them.

By the way you seem to know that a gang rapist- murderer is on the loose. What kind of balls do you have? What have you done about it? There is no statute of limitations on murder. Where and when was this supposed to have happened? I have no problems alerting the authorities to a crime like that. What is your problem? Tell me which police department to call and I'll be on the phone immediately.

Of all the stuff I saw, according to the district attorney, none of it was his opinion illegal. Not my decision, but the deputy DA's name was Connelly and his number is published.

Guy Bonnano is the principal of my son's high school, (909) 336-2038. You can google the school and get his e-mail also. I don't know if I give him a friendly smile or a socialble nod, but if I felt the pain, injustice and anger you're pissing out here, I might vent it at the real target and not some peripheral character of your nightmares. What I needed to say to him I said to him years ago- and never did I ever feel like being anything but cordial to him- especially since I do have to work with him- as if not carrying some bitter grudge for decades is some kind of character flaw. What do you suggest, a weekly kick in the ankle? Get real. I'm not the one who wants or need to confront him.

I certainly never had the dog conversation with him.

I won't speak ill of the dead, nor will I blame those lost souls for the pain they must have endured. But I feel confident that I did not fail them, and bear no guilt for actions of kids I may have barely or possibly never met for actions that occurred years later. People with problems sometimes kill themselves. You can blame it on a lot of things, Cedu if it is convenient, you can blame yourself for not being there when they needed you, but blaming it on me seems irrational.

Until Geoff alerted me to this board, I really had no idea what kind of deep injury CEDU caused in so many people. Your manic posts speak volumes to this. I had hoped that some good was coming out of all of this.

Go in peace. I hope you can put the pain anger and bitterness behind you. Cedu has stolen enough of your life already.

The problem with the "teen help" industry is that it's a bad "solution" in search of a problem.

http://fornits.com/wwf/bb_profile.php?mode=view&user=943' target='_new'>Julie C.

[ This Message was edited by: sabro on 2005-07-29 22:33 ]

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Sabro.  I was very much involved with the detective at the Twin Peaks station and I told him everything I know about abuses at the schoool, and all about Russ Decker- who at the time, he was already concentrating a lot of effort on.  In a nut shell, he told me I'm was one of very few helping him, and the case was basically dropped when the investigator (Damn someone help me- I can't remember his name) left his position and moved to the Highland division.

I've spoken to numerous parents, and if you search some of my posts, you'll see I tried my best to round up a peaceful, organized, dissent preferably on a parent conference day, and I'll I could ever get in responce here was talk, talk, talk, no action at all.

I've been an activist most of my life.  From childhood in 1986 fighting the Marcos Regime with my mom with the non-profit group Tulong Sa Bayan, and since then with the Democratic party.

My assumptions were wrong, and I appologize for my mania.  I won't defend whether I'm sad and/or bitter, because although I'm angry still, I don't consider myself a sad or bitter person.  You, however, have much more integrity than I thought, and maybe its just too easy for me to lump all the ex-staff of CEDU into one label and hate them all.

Did I say these things to muckrake?  Maybe, but I remember you being one of the only staff there I respected, and I liked you a lot, and I just had to know where your head's really at, because I have nothing but bad memories of that place and honestly, other than you and Luke Nemo- I hate them all.  

You were only 27 years old, and probably more idealistic than most, and maybe you were a victim, too in a way, or maybe you just plain did all you could at the time.  I don't know.  I remember when you lost your spoon out in the wilderness, and I remember you making chop sticks.

Why aren't you angry when you see Guy?  Because I guess it just wasn't as personal.  You were staff- I was a student.  There's a big difference in perspective, and I know you know that.

[Anonymous]

"You of all people know how much time I spent in Brace's office, and how I was pulled from raps and propheets. (Such a punishment...) You have never heard me say or do anything abusive, or inappropriate or even cuss."

Yes, I remember now.  This is true.  My whole anger came out, when I mistakenly perceived that you- a person that I really looked up to as a 15 year old dumb kid and in my memory was the only thing good about a place that for me was a nightmare, were on social terms with people I consider to be abusers.

Including Donna Dillman.  Or was she just a victim of cultish brainwashing?  Is it okay to participate in what you know damn well was psychological abuse- just because you think you're helping kids?

What were the staff's motivations?  Sadism, power, or did they really foolish enough to think they were helping?  There were many laws broken there, Sabro.  Reading our mail?  Censoring our mail and phonecalls?  Denying the right to practice religion?  If I asked to go to church, by law I was supposed to be allowed to on any given sunday.  It was up on the walls there, as legally, our rights as students had to be displayed.

Just because I'm angry, doesn't mean I'm crazy.  I'll calm down.  Peace to you, too.  I'm glad that you're still the way I remember you.  Never yelled, never cussed, never got angry, and always sincere.  Damn Sabro.  If you knew what I did after I got out of there to become free again of CEDU's grip.  Am I ever free?  I know that you saying that Rudy taught me well, really stung.  Yeah, he did.  I wish I never learned that.  I wish I could erase everything I ever learned to do or think from there.

Tell me the truth about one thing:

When I got busted for having that underground with 4 other peers, I was so scared that you would be mad at me, and you were the only staff I didn't ever want to disappoint.  Yet, I don't remember you ever being mad in a rap or anything- but that's about the time we weren't as close of friends anymore.

Do you remember that?  You were actually proud of me, weren't you?  For being able to keep myself individual, even while they were trying to take everyone's individuality away.