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An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Greetings to you again John from a fellow Seed graduate. I am glad that you took some time to read other posts & to respond again.

Your point about the lack of discussion on this board about "helping others" is well-taken BUT... I don't believe it is fair to conclude that the commonality of the members as a bunch of self-obsessed spoiled brats.

The whole point of relating in a forum like this is to share "your" experiences and the events that affected "your" life. So it is not unusual to run into alot "I this" or "I that".

Even the most jaded & cynical of the former seedlings can think back & remember many times where they a) were truly glad to see a fellow new-comer finally "get it" & start to be honest and to see his/her face "glow" with genuine happiness or b) while a fellow seedling was being come down on in the rap was able to say something that they could relate to & that helped them or c) felt at some time (for a relatively brief moment)  that The Seed really could change the world because they could see how the program was helping "them" or d) saw the new tough guy doing the hokey pokey & having fun or e) helped a newcomer see that it could be "cool" to be straight.... etc.

Let's face it.. The Seed used pretty extreme peer pressure to counteract peer pressure. Some call it brain-washing and it could certainly have good & ill effects. Particularly if there is no room for debating certain issues, which the program did not tolerate. The Seed wasn't a messy democracy but a more efficient dictatorship.. which arguably is what was needed but not ideal. I can remember a time in Guys Rap when we were talking about games we used to play with chicks for example & someone would describe how they had a lot of FUN going out surfing with the girls or out riding dirt bikes, etc... when that really wasn't the "right" thing to say & they got pounded verbally. Anything about the "old days" couldn't be fun because we were so f**ked up & miserable - which of course wasn't always true. But, we had to say we were miserable to "fit in" and avoid getting stood up. If the program would have tolerated more "honest" conversation & some debate while instilling the core principles you talked about (self honesty, love of self & others, etc) it would have helped a lot. When I told someone passing by "I Love You".... many times it was heartfelt but after awhile I was just "saying" what I was supposed to say. Know what I mean?

I am no expert, but from what I have heard about  AA over the years... it seems to be a better program in respect to allowing the participants in the group to do or say whatever they want while trying to impress on them that it is the common experience that "if you do "X" then "Y" will happen, but if you don't believe it go find out yourself. We will be here for you anytime you need help". That is a very compassionate & empathetic support group. By contrast, The Seed could be very caring & supportive BUT only if you said & did the right things and didn't ever question Art or Staff.

As "I" have said here in this forum a few times, I am glad that I went to The Seed... it helped put me on the right path after "hitting the bottom" at the tender age of 16. However, when I graduated I did not want to continue participating because it was so rigid and I was paranoid about getting thrown back in. I was lucky to have a group of seedlings in my town that I stayed friends with for many years. We had fun & helped each other grow into adulthood. I did & still do try to help people with problems tho & I give you & The Seed alot of credit for helping me "grow up". Thank you!
Greg J
Sarasota

On 2004-12-04 15:44:00, Jimmy Cusick wrote:

 When I was at the seed, I talked about almost everything that bothered me and vented to other friends. Now I remain very alone. I dont have any friends and I dont trust people,,,,,,,,,,,,
     

Hey Jimmy,

I can understand where you're at now (notice I didn't say "I can relate to that")....

I was very fortunate in that my post-Seed life was fairly free of problems... at least as far as drugs & alcohol go. The main reason for that was the support I got from my "friends" in the Seed. Others in my town who graduated helped me an awful lot to learn to do without drugs.

I too fondly remember those times with my friends (not so much in the rap sessions which I didn't really like).

Seems to me what you need most of all is a friend or group of friends that can understand you & tell you what you need to hear. Also, just to be friends.

Do you have any close friends in Cleveland to talk too? If you're in AA or have been there in the past... that may be a good place to get some support AND it will put you in a position to maybe help others which of course can help you & them.

We can't go back to 1974, but some of the positive things that we experienced can be repeated. You may have some friends right now who would like to help you through this period? Or you may need to find others?

I hope you work out something that works for you and as you know, this group can help a little. A lot of us have been through what you're going through & care about you.

Day 76 - Moral Inventory - 10/12/75 (Move to Broward)

I left The Seed in St Pete today we all came down to the Broward Seed. It's really great down here. I could tell when I first seen it when we pulled up it looked so homey I guess you could call it, it just looked really great then we came into the group & it was really neat because I didn't know any of the people or anything but I felt at home, I really felt close to everybody & the vibes were really great.

There's a lot more people here but that's really great because I know that after a while I'll get to know everyone's name & really know them & like I feel really close to them already but I know that I'm gonna get to know them alot better.

And I think that there's so much more to learn here because of all my friends & new ideas & everybody really bein' close to each other & bein' together.

I LOVE YOU

Goals: I'm gonna relate as much as I can tomorrow so that I can really get into what's going on & so that other people in the group can get to know me better.

On 2004-09-26 09:00:00, rjfro22 wrote:

"I know singing those sappy songs were ridiculous, I basically just moved my mouth.

It certainly was a way to break the big ego.

The road to recovery...."

Right! I can't think of a better way to break down the big ego of a "tough kid" than making him sing Zippety Do-da or Do the Hokey Pokey or playing Simon Says or cutting off a couple years worth of long hair.

You are also correct that many of us were on the road to recovery during & after The Seed... not from drug addiction (which you didn't say) but from a self-destructive way of life largely centered around doing "non-addictive" drugs.

For most of us in The Seed... we needed a "jolt" or an abrupt about face to get off the wrong track and onto the right one.

Unfortunately, there were alot of negatives mixed in with the good & for alot of people in the program, the negatives outweighed the good.

= = = Getting back to original post.... would be interesting for me & others to hear of any fond memories or lessons learned others have had = = =

GregFL wrote,
 In addition, it was encouraged to say, "the group is my god" or "art is my god" during rap. ALmost anyone here will confirm that.

I was never encouraged to say or heard "the group is my god" or Art is my god".

If I would have heard those statements, even at my young age while in the program... it would have been a real tip-off that I was surrounded by some real wackos.

I am surprised that cleveland seems to share your opinion? Are there others who felt they were supposed to consider Art as their saviour or higher power?

It wasn't my experience and everytime I hear you mention it, it tends to take away from other points you make that are otherwise valid. I keep waiting to hear someone say Art was a wife beater or kicked his dog.  :grin:  

Just my opinion....

PS Sorry I mistook your comments on AA as praise for the organization. Evidently I was mistaken and we differ on it's merits.

Greetings SBennett-K!

It is great to hear your positive experience with the Seed & we would like to hear more about your time there. As you read the threads of this forum, you will probably feel you are in the minority... but not alone.

I too was in a "downward spiral" when I went into the program in '75 & the experience changed the direction of my life.

As far as brainwashing goes.. it is pretty obvious to me & most others that it was central to the program. Be open minded & read of other's experiences & contrast and compare to yours.

Remember----- anyone posting about their experiences with the Seed was in the SAME program as you were, so you should consider their feelings/conclusions as sincere.

Greg[ This Message was edited by: Filobeddoe on 2004-09-04 08:32 ]

Day 38 - Moral Inventory - 9/04/75

I had a great day today. We were talking about the way we were when we were druggies. Our images & stuff this morning. I thought that I was pretty much of a con-artist & a sneak. Then after lunch we were talkin' about our families & stuff. I learned alot about how come my stepfather was the way he was.

Then Mike got stood up for being really full of shit & I helped him out. I really surprised myself that I really could help somebody out. I didn't just pass the buck like I had been doin' before. I got up & talked to him 6 or 7 times whenever I thought of something that I thought would help him & I was being really forceful & I was really helping him.

Darlene & Cliff (who just came up here from Broward) seen that I was helping him too. Then we told each other we loved each other after the meeting & Mike was really sincere & I saw that I helped him change. That made me feel really good.

Also, we had a bomb scare this afternoon, the police were there & everything so we went into the parking lot & had our rap.

I LOVE YOU

Greetings Wally Gator!

Seven (7) years!! Now, that is tooooooo long. When did you graduate your program? I was in for 12 months & while I didn't hate the Seed... I had had enough & was ready to go on with working, going to school, etc.... never went back.

Were you on staff or otherwise employed at the Seed during your time at Ft Lauderdale? Were you there everyday or did you just stay active with the program?

Being involved with the program for so long, you probably have alot of stories which we would love for you to share.

I can understand how you could find things to like about your fellow seedlings. Alot of them were very good people. I was lucky to have all good oldcomers when I was there as well as a bunch of graduates in my hometown of Sarasota that I was very close to. I can't say that about staff... just because I didn't ever get to know them in my short time there (their job was to be our overseers... not our friends or peers of course).

..... look forward to hearing more of your story.