Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Hyde Schools => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 22, 2006, 06:58:45 PM
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/076150 ... 55&s=books (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0761501606/ref=dp_return_2/102-3672424-4399316?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books)
Character First: The Hyde School Way and Why It Works (Paperback)
by Joseph Gauld
From Kirkus Reviews
Louisa May Alcott would applaud the Hyde School experiment as outlined in this history by its founder and former headmaster. In Jo's Boys, a sequel to Little Women, Alcott sent Jo and her Professor Baer off to the woods to start a school for incorrigible boys. Gauld did much the same, turning a historic estate in remote Bath, Maine, into a private boarding school for boys and girls who struggle unsuccessfully with traditional academic programs. Like Alcott, Gauld emphasized character. Not all of his youngsters had behavior problems--some were simply unable to get into the college of their choice and looked to Hyde to maximize their SATs. But Gauld holds no brief for SAT scores and high grade-point averages: The goal at the Hyde School is to instill values and to cultivate each student's ``unique potential.'' Diplomas are awarded on the basis of maximum personal growth, and academics do not count (although Hyde will certify to admissions offices that students are academically prepared for college). Mottos (``Courage, Integrity, Concern, Curiosity, Leadership''); principles (``Humility, Conscience, Truth''); an honor code; and quotations from Kahlil Gibran help map the way for Hyde students. Most important is the involvement of the parents, who are required to attend retreats and workshops, and to participate in the school's Parent Learning Center programs, where they explore their own behavior, values, goals, and relationships. Although the Hyde program smacks of elitism--a foreword by Cher, whose son attended the school, strengthens that impression--Gauld's philosophy of education parallels that of inner-city school leader Madeline Cartwright (Lessons from a Visionary Principal, reviewed above). Hyde's program is worthy--but a plethora of patting-our-own- back anecdotes, as well as accolades from parents and former students, make this more testimonial than guidebook.
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0761501606/ref=dp_return_2/102-3672424-4399316?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books
Character First: The Hyde School Way and Why It Works (Paperback)
by Joseph Gauld
From Kirkus Reviews
Louisa May Alcott would applaud the Hyde School experiment as outlined in this history by its founder and former headmaster. In Jo's Boys, a sequel to Little Women, Alcott sent Jo and her Professor Baer off to the woods to start a school for incorrigible boys. Gauld did much the same, turning a historic estate in remote Bath, Maine, into a private boarding school for boys and girls who struggle unsuccessfully with traditional academic programs. Like Alcott, Gauld emphasized character. Not all of his youngsters had behavior problems--some were simply unable to get into the college of their choice and looked to Hyde to maximize their SATs. But Gauld holds no brief for SAT scores and high grade-point averages: The goal at the Hyde School is to instill values and to cultivate each student's ``unique potential.'' Diplomas are awarded on the basis of maximum personal growth, and academics do not count (although Hyde will certify to admissions offices that students are academically prepared for college). Mottos (``Courage, Integrity, Concern, Curiosity, Leadership''); principles (``Humility, Conscience, Truth''); an honor code; and quotations from Kahlil Gibran help map the way for Hyde students. Most important is the involvement of the parents, who are required to attend retreats and workshops, and to participate in the school's Parent Learning Center programs, where they explore their own behavior, values, goals, and relationships. Although the Hyde program smacks of elitism--a foreword by Cher, whose son attended the school, strengthens that impression--Gauld's philosophy of education parallels that of inner-city school leader Madeline Cartwright (Lessons from a Visionary Principal, reviewed above). Hyde's program is worthy--but a plethora of patting-our-own- back anecdotes, as well as accolades from parents and former students, make this more testimonial than guidebook.
I've read this book. I think some of the ideals are noteworthy, but I think the book is sorely lacking in conceptual depth, intellectual rigor, and any empirical evidence of Hyde's effectiveness. The author paints with a very broad brush and doesn't acknowledge Hyde's well known shortcomings. Also, Hyde's student body seems to have changed; it now includes many kids with serious psychiatric diagnoses and substance abuse issues, the kinds of kids that one used to find mostly at therapeutic boarding schools. The model described in this book seems to assume a different kind of student body than the one Hyde used to have when it accepted mostly kids who are defiant. Hyde is trying to superimpose its old model on a population for which it wasn't designed and often doesn't work.
Joe Gauld, as usual, is full of hubris and self-congratulation. This book is mostly an encomium for Gauld himself. As the reviewer said, the "plethora of patting-our-own- back anecdotes, as well as accolades from parents and former students, make this more testimonial than guidebook." Much of what Gauld says sounds great in theory; sadly, the devil is in the details. Gauld and company implement this model so badly and unskillfully that many educational consultants absolutely refuse to refer kids to Hyde.
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The more I read and hear about this guy, the more he seems like Miller Newton.
Here's another review:
Reviewer: F. Reamer and D. Siegel "former Hyde parents" - See all my reviews
We were introduced to this book last spring when our daughter was enrolled at the Hyde School (Woodstock campus). We do not question the author's sincerity or enthusiasm. In principle, many of the values and concepts broached in this book are laudable. However, the Hyde School that our family experienced and the one portrayed in this book are radically different. In our family's experience, much too often the school does not live up to the ideals of truth, honesty, integrity, courage, and accountability espoused by the author in this book. We witnessed many instances of what we consider to be egregious emotional abuse, manipulation, and mishandling of students' mental health issues -- practices that contradict the author's confident assertions about the Hyde model. As the renowned author, James Traub, says in his recent assessment of the Hyde model, "The school sometimes feels to the kids like prison on the honor code . . . . About 40 percent of each class drops out. One senior told me that she was one of 9 kids remaining from her freshman class of 25 or 30. . . . Hyde feels almost like a cult, or at least a caste." (James Traub, "The Moral Imperative," Education Next, 2005). Traub's insightful, astute observations seem much closer to the truth, as we know it, than Gauld's chracterization in this book.
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The more I read and hear about this guy, the more he seems like Miller Newton.
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Ditto that. The more I read about Mr. Newton and his personality, the more I think about Joe Gauld. The main difference between Hyde and Straight, Inc. is that Hyde doesn't try to prevent anyone from escaping. Instead, they urge your parents to throw you out on the street if you don't buy into the Hyde cult. Sort of like what the WWASP people call an "exit plan".
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The more I read and hear about this guy, the more he seems like Miller Newton.
[/i]
Ditto that. The more I read about Mr. Newton and his personality, the more I think about Joe Gauld. The main difference between Hyde and Straight, Inc. is that Hyde doesn't try to prevent anyone from escaping. Instead, they urge your parents to throw you out on the street if you don't buy into the Hyde cult. Sort of like what the WWASP people call an "exit plan".
Parents are often enablers and usually the root cause of a childs problems. If a parent takes a child back home with open arms, then often both fall back into the patterns that caused the problems in the first place. We're creatures of habit. Sometimes you need to break the patterns to move forward and facilitate true change. A choice between the discomfort of Hyde and the feared unknown of "the street" often makes the choice easier for a kid... Neither is a pleasant choice, but one can provide you with an environment to change problem behavior.
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What that does is remove the opportunity to learn. You force them to adopt a behavior they don't want nor do they believe in, that's behavior modification, that's screwing around with someone's very core. You can't force someone to believe something without breaking them down first. If they do change the destructive behavior it's not because they've learned anything. It's because they've been scared into it.
I'm very curious about this "Brother's Keeper" philosophy and the levels used. Can anyone explain them to me?
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Aw hell!
The Culture War Continues
A controversial character-training program was pulled from a state bill, yes. But now Broward County has to deal with it.
By Bob Norman
Article Published Apr 15, 1999
http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/1999-04-15/news2.html (http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/1999-04-15/news2.html)
Google character first jeb bush gothard
What we have here is the culmination and fruition of all those manic, Twilight Zone "take over the world" raps.
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More
Bush Admin Disavows Own Study Showing Charter Schools Score Worse than Public Schools. Who Needs Facts When You Have an Agenda? -- A BuzzFlash Alerts
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/alerts/098 (http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/alerts/098)
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What that does is remove the opportunity to learn. You force them to adopt a behavior they don't want nor do they believe in, that's behavior modification, that's screwing around with someone's very core. You can't force someone to believe something without breaking them down first. If they do change the destructive behavior it's not because they've learned anything. It's because they've been scared into it.
I'm very curious about this "Brother's Keeper" philosophy and the levels used. Can anyone explain them to me?
"Brother's Jailor" is more like it. Basically, it means that Hyde kids are expected to spy and rat on each other. For instance, if someone gets caught with a cigarette not only is that kid on two-four but all of his roommates are put on two-four as well, whether they knew about it or not (unless, of course, you were the one who ratted). As for levels and phases, Hyde dosen't have that kind of system as Straight,Inc. did or WWASP does, although Seniors have power over underclassmen. Also, people in their senior year who weren't good enough Quislings to be worthy of the exalted title of Senior were called "senior preps" and weren't allowed to graduate.
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Sorry, that last post was me. forgot to log in.
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Aw hell!
The Culture War Continues
A controversial character-training program was pulled from a state bill, yes. But now Broward County has to deal with it.
By Bob Norman
Article Published Apr 15, 1999
http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/1999-04-15/news2.html (http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/1999-04-15/news2.html)
Google character first jeb bush gothard
What we have here is the culmination and fruition of all those manic, Twilight Zone "take over the world" raps.
Eudora, you're confusing Bill Gotherd's Character First! program with the title of Joe Gauld's book. Joe DOES want to export his program to the public schools (and he has a few inner-city charter schools) but he WISHES he had the influence of Bill Gotherd or for that matter Mel and Betty Sembler!
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"Tough Love: Abuse of a type particularly gratifying to the abuser, in that it combines the pleasures of sadism with those of self-righteousness. Commonly employed and widely admired in 12-Step groups and treatment."
-- Charles Bufe
Does this sound like anyone you know? For those of you who have not gone to Hyde, this is a description of Joe Gauld which is what makes Hyde very scary. He learned these tactics while going through AA and introduced them as part of the culture at Hyde School.
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Tough Love is proven to be the most effective form of treatment for drug addiction that there is! I suppose you'd prefer druggies to be molly-coddled through 30-day programs so they can go right back out on the streets and continue on their downward spiral to jail, insanity and death! :roll:
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"Tough Love: Abuse of a type particularly gratifying to the abuser, in that it combines the pleasures of sadism with those of self-righteousness. Commonly employed and widely admired in 12-Step groups and treatment."
-- Charles Bufe
Does this sound like anyone you know? For those of you who have not gone to Hyde, this is a description of Joe Gauld which is what makes Hyde very scary. He learned these tactics while going through AA and introduced them as part of the culture at Hyde School.
TTBOMK Joe never went to AA. His wife, Blanche , was an active alcoholic in the years that I was there. He was going to alanon an made a trip to hazelton during my tour of Bath Me. this was in the mid seventies. so the founding of hyde pre dates his involvement with the 12 based programs, which i might add work for about 10% of alcoholics.
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so the founding of hyde pre dates his involvement with the 12 based programs, which i might add work for about 10% of alcoholics.
Actually, according to their own "study" it's about 5%. The same as spontaneous remission.
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-eff ... l#Vaillant (http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html#Vaillant)
Professor (and Doctor) George E. Vaillant of Harvard University is an enthusiastic advocate of Twelve-Step treatment, and is currently a Non-alcoholic -- Class A -- member of the Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. (AAWS) Board of Trustees. In 1983, he published his book The Natural History of Alcoholism: Causes, Patterns, and Paths to Recovery, where he described the natural healing process associated with individuals addicted to alcohol -- "spontaneous remission" -- where some of the people who are addicted to alcohol will simply quit, and choose to stay abstinent of their own volition, without any Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, or any therapy program, or any other outside intervention at all.
Dr. Vaillant's question was: does the A.A. program improve on the percentage of alcoholics who undergo spontaneous remission?
Following the passage of the Hughes Act, the U.S. government -- the NIAAA to be specific -- funded studies of alcoholism treatment. Dr. Vaillant participated in the Cambridge-Sommerville [Massachusetts] Program for Alcohol Rehabilitation (CASPAR). It featured 24-hour walk-in services with medical treatment for detoxing. It treated 1000 new patients per year, did 2500 detoxifications per year, and had 20,000 outpatient visits per year.
To study the effectiveness of various methods of treating alcoholism ("treatment modalities"), Vaillant compiled forty years of clinical studies. Vaillant and the director William Clark also conducted an eight-year longitudinal study of their own where Vaillant reported having followed 100 patients who had undergone Twelve-Step treatment. (That was an unusually large and long-term study.) Vaillant compared those people to a group of several hundred other untreated alcohol abusers. The treated patients did no better than the untreated alcoholics. Fully 95% of the treated patients relapsed sometime during the eight-year period that Vaillant followed them. Professor Vaillant candidly reported:
When I joined the staff at Cambridge Hospital, I learned about the disease of alcoholism for the first time. My prior training had been at a famous teaching hospital that from past despair had posted an unwritten sign over the door that read "alcoholic patients need not apply." ... At Cambridge Hospital I learned for the first time how to diagnose alcoholism as an illness and to think of abstinence in terms of "one day at a time." ... To me, alcoholism became a fascinating disease. It seemed perfectly clear that by meeting the immediate individual needs of the alcoholic, by using multimodality therapy, by disregarding "motivation," by turning to recovering alcoholics [A.A. members] rather than to Ph.D.'s for lessons in breaking self-detrimental and more or less involuntary habits, and by inexorably moving patients from dependence upon the general hospital into the treatment system of A.A., I was working for the most exciting alcohol program in the world.
But then came the rub. Fueled by our enthusiasm, I and the director, William Clark, tried to prove our efficacy. Our clinic followed up our first 100 detoxification patients, the Clinic sample described in Chapter 3, every year for the next 8 years. ...
Table 8.1 shows our treatment results. After initial discharge, only five patients in the Clinic sample never relapsed to alcoholic drinking, and there is compelling evidence that the results of our treatment were no better than the natural history of the disease. In table 8.1, the outcomes for the Clinic sample patients are contrasted with two-year follow-ups of four treatment programs that analyzed their data in a comparable way and admitted patients similar to ours. The Clinic sample results are also contrasted with three studies of equal duration that purported to offer no formal treatment. Although the treatment populations differ, the studies are roughly comparable; in hopes of averaging out major sampling differences, the studies are pooled. Costello (1975), Emrick (1975), and Hill and Blane (1967) have reviewed many more disparate two-year outcome studies and have noted roughly similar proportions of significantly improved and unimproved alcoholics. Not only had we failed to alter the natural history of alcoholism, but our death rate of three percent a year was appalling.
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"Tough Love: Abuse of a type particularly gratifying to the abuser, in that it combines the pleasures of sadism with those of self-righteousness. Commonly employed and widely admired in 12-Step groups and treatment."
-- Charles Bufe
Does this sound like anyone you know? For those of you who have not gone to Hyde, this is a description of Joe Gauld which is what makes Hyde very scary. He learned these tactics while going through AA and introduced them as part of the culture at Hyde School.
TTBOMK Joe never went to AA. His wife, Blanche , was an active alcoholic in the years that I was there. He was going to alanon an made a trip to hazelton during my tour of Bath Me. this was in the mid seventies. so the founding of hyde pre dates his involvement with the 12 based programs, which i might add work for about 10% of alcoholics.
Exactly right! Joe was involved in AA programs whether for his wife or himself. AA seldom works, just like Hyde seldom works. Hyde is good for one thing. It provides structure that some parents are incapable of giving their kids. For the time the kids are at Hyde, they are in a structured environment which is helpful. For some kids this structure can help them temporarily, for others it does no good.
What frightens me the most is the lack of education at Hyde. I hope they have improved their system since the 90's, but when I was there, the lack of educated teachers was appalling. I don't think Hyde should be calling themselves a "college prep school" because it just isn't so, and I think it is unfair to mislead families into believing their child will get a good education.
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"Tough Love: Abuse of a type particularly gratifying to the abuser, in that it combines the pleasures of sadism with those of self-righteousness. Commonly employed and widely admired in 12-Step groups and treatment."
-- Charles Bufe
Does this sound like anyone you know? For those of you who have not gone to Hyde, this is a description of Joe Gauld which is what makes Hyde very scary. He learned these tactics while going through AA and introduced them as part of the culture at Hyde School.
TTBOMK Joe never went to AA. His wife, Blanche , was an active alcoholic in the years that I was there. He was going to alanon an made a trip to hazelton during my tour of Bath Me. this was in the mid seventies. so the founding of hyde pre dates his involvement with the 12 based programs, which i might add work for about 10% of alcoholics.
Exactly right! Joe was involved in AA programs whether for his wife or himself. AA seldom works, just like Hyde seldom works. Hyde is good for one thing. It provides structure that some parents are incapable of giving their kids. For the time the kids are at Hyde, they are in a structured environment which is helpful. For some kids this structure can help them temporarily, for others it does no good.
What frightens me the most is the lack of education at Hyde. I hope they have improved their system since the 90's, but when I was there, the lack of educated teachers was appalling. I don't think Hyde should be calling themselves a "college prep school" because it just isn't so, and I think it is unfair to mislead families into believing their child will get a good education.
Yes, when I was at Hyde the educational quality was sadly lacking. Part of the problem is that so many Hyde teachers are young and inexperienced and many leave after a year or two. You don't have the kind of experienced faculty most schools have. Also, education isn't the big priority at Hyde.
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Funny how a few visitors to this site trash Hyde's educational standards. There are kids who left Hyde, screwed up and fell on their faces, as with many/most schools. This individual is probably one of them (or a parent of one), and it seems much easier to blame someone else (Hyde) for one's own failure. I graduated there and along with ALL of my classmates went on to various colleges and did fine. Several that I know of have done graduate and advanced graduate work. Not sure where the disconnect is, but some folks here sure likes to paint a grim picture of Hyde academics, when it's just not true (except perhaps in their own case...).
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Funny how a few visitors to this site trash Hyde's educational standards. There are kids who left Hyde, screwed up and fell on their faces, as with many/most schools. This individual is probably one of them (or a parent of one), and it seems much easier to blame someone else (Hyde) for one's own failure. I graduated there and along with ALL of my classmates went on to various colleges and did fine. Several that I know of have done graduate and advanced graduate work. Not sure where the disconnect is, but some folks here sure likes to paint a grim picture of Hyde academics, when it's just not true (except perhaps in their own case...).
Don't mean to bash you, but if indeed you went to Hyde and if indeed you went to college, you invaribly would know that Hyde's education is practically non existent. I excel in college now, but it was made much harder because I did not have a good foundation at Hyde. My spanish teacher was less versed in Spanish then I was. The head of one of the other depts barely got through school himself and was not qualified to be a teacher no less a department head. I disagree with you that it is the students fault for not doing well in school. It is necessary to have good teachers and the good teachers do not work at Hyde. If we were lucky to get a decent one, they left within a year. Why is it that teachers in the public school system stay until they retire, but at Hyde they don't last more than a year or two? Please don't give me the typical Hyde lecture about Hyde being a tough place and you must be totally committed. If Hyde succeeded as they advertise, then they would attract good teachers from all over. This is not the case at Hyde.
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Funny how a few visitors to this site trash Hyde's educational standards. There are kids who left Hyde, screwed up and fell on their faces, as with many/most schools. This individual is probably one of them (or a parent of one), and it seems much easier to blame someone else (Hyde) for one's own failure. I graduated there and along with ALL of my classmates went on to various colleges and did fine. Several that I know of have done graduate and advanced graduate work. Not sure where the disconnect is, but some folks here sure likes to paint a grim picture of Hyde academics, when it's just not true (except perhaps in their own case...).
Don't mean to bash you, but if indeed you went to Hyde and if indeed you went to college, you invaribly would know that Hyde's education is practically non existent. I excel in college now, but it was made much harder because I did not have a good foundation at Hyde. My spanish teacher was less versed in Spanish then I was. The head of one of the other depts barely got through school himself and was not qualified to be a teacher no less a department head. I disagree with you that it is the students fault for not doing well in school. It is necessary to have good teachers and the good teachers do not work at Hyde. If we were lucky to get a decent one, they left within a year. Why is it that teachers in the public school system stay until they retire, but at Hyde they don't last more than a year or two? Please don't give me the typical Hyde lecture about Hyde being a tough place and you must be totally committed. If Hyde succeeded as they advertise, then they would attract good teachers from all over. This is not the case at Hyde.
When I was at Hyde the teachers were a real mixed bag. Some were very bright and dedicated; unfortunately, they didn't stay at Hyde long (I think they quickly became disenchanted with Hyde's overall model, about which they didn't know much when they took the job). Other faculty were very weak. I remember one history teacher who talked about how he had been a very poor student. I had to laugh; he made many grammatical mistakes and just didn't seem to belong in a classroom. Yet, he seemed to buy the Hyde belief system, so they were willing to hire him and put him in a classroom full of kids with problems. So, I think part of the problem at Hyde is the glaring inconsistency in the quality of education -- it's not all good or bad, but there sure was some "bad."
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"Tough Love: Abuse of a type particularly gratifying to the abuser, in that it combines the pleasures of sadism with those of self-righteousness. Commonly employed and widely admired in 12-Step groups and treatment."
-- Charles Bufe
Does this sound like anyone you know? For those of you who have not gone to Hyde, this is a description of Joe Gauld which is what makes Hyde very scary. He learned these tactics while going through AA and introduced them as part of the culture at Hyde School.
TTBOMK Joe never went to AA. His wife, Blanche , was an active alcoholic in the years that I was there. He was going to alanon an made a trip to hazelton during my tour of Bath Me. this was in the mid seventies. so the founding of hyde pre dates his involvement with the 12 based programs, which i might add work for about 10% of alcoholics.
Excuse me for not being as smart as you, but what does "TTBOMK" mean?
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Funny how a few visitors to this site trash Hyde's educational standards. There are kids who left Hyde, screwed up and fell on their faces, as with many/most schools. This individual is probably one of them (or a parent of one), and it seems much easier to blame someone else (Hyde) for one's own failure. I graduated there and along with ALL of my classmates went on to various colleges and did fine. Several that I know of have done graduate and advanced graduate work. Not sure where the disconnect is, but some folks here sure likes to paint a grim picture of Hyde academics, when it's just not true (except perhaps in their own case...).
Go on Myspace and search for Hyde Schools. See what you come up with. Most of them seem along the lines of this.....
Don't mean to bash you, but if indeed you went to Hyde and if indeed you went to college, you invaribly would know that Hyde's education is practically non existent. I excel in college now, but it was made much harder because I did not have a good foundation at Hyde. My spanish teacher was less versed in Spanish then I was. The head of one of the other depts barely got through school himself and was not qualified to be a teacher no less a department head. I disagree with you that it is the students fault for not doing well in school. It is necessary to have good teachers and the good teachers do not work at Hyde. If we were lucky to get a decent one, they left within a year. Why is it that teachers in the public school system stay until they retire, but at Hyde they don't last more than a year or two? Please don't give me the typical Hyde lecture about Hyde being a tough place and you must be totally committed. If Hyde succeeded as they advertise, then they would attract good teachers from all over. This is not the case at Hyde.
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and this....
i went to boarding school for 2 years in another small town called woodstock up in ct. it was a punk ass boarding school and totally sucked ass!! but now i'm in college and i love it!! i'm undeclared and i usually have no idea what i wanna do after school. it changes like every month. lol
And I'm still waiting for an answer as to how someone like this Larry guy can be allowed anywhere near the campus.
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and this......
i lost my virginity there to. except to the secretary. katie richards, hahaha that was alot of fun. it was during one of those weekends where your parents come down and you do that boring ass therapy shit. got i hated it. i do miss the flying carpet and shit. oh and the barbeque chicken pizza. yummmm. oh other than that fucck hyde.
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and this......
i lost my virginity there to. except to the secretary. katie richards, hahaha that was alot of fun. it was during one of those weekends where your parents come down and you do that boring ass therapy shit. got i hated it. i do miss the flying carpet and shit. oh and the barbeque chicken pizza. yummmm. oh other than that fucck hyde.
Well this certainly contridicts what the other poster said about most kids having a positive experience at Hyde. Where can I go to find these posts about Hyde?
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Myspace. Do a search for Hyde.... one of them is Hyde Robots
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From Hyde Robots
LOL havefun with that. it is depressing. I sware ... I was put on depression meds... You have limited contact with the outside world... I got yelled at when I talked to my parents on the phnoe in the dorm. Im outta there now but I was there for summer challenge and my 10th grade year.
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This one gives a good insight into the mentality that is likely to come out of Hyde. I'm assuming he's considered a "success". He responded to someone's complaints about Hyde.
..... Stop ur bitching. Nothing makes someone worse unless that person just had it coming for them, so aparently you were fucked up enough to go to the school, and seeing for the fact you got kicked out doesnt say much on your half either..... No one "learns" to smoke pot at a boarding school. People learn to smoke pot because they have nothing better to do with themselves so think before you speak girl.
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hyde sucks.... alot pf people who go there just get more problems.. i was NORMAL. now, i fucke din the head. believe me, it is okay for some, but the people who go there who are kinda normal, they just learn how to be a bad kid. not saying hyde hasen't taught me anything, like how to do homework and smoke pot, but for the most part, stay away from it. all you grads who are like, "yay hyde", it's changed big time. how do i know? even ask the grads that come back for a tour. you'll here stories of what it's been like.
my brother even knows that it gets worse as it goes along, and he's a grad. not worse as in the place sucks, but like the problems there. everywhere you look, kids are dirty. supposedly the problem is that hyde isn't "strict" enough, that people will sue if they take it to a boot camp level. but w/e i got kicke dout 2 times at woodstock, and my brother is this great hyde success story at bath. maybe it's just the campus, who knows?
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hyde sucks.... alot pf people who go there just get more problems.. i was NORMAL. now, i fucke din the head. believe me, it is okay for some, but the people who go there who are kinda normal, they just learn how to be a bad kid. not saying hyde hasen't taught me anything, like how to do homework and smoke pot, but for the most part, stay away from it. all you grads who are like, "yay hyde", it's changed big time. how do i know? even ask the grads that come back for a tour. you'll here stories of what it's been like.
my brother even knows that it gets worse as it goes along, and he's a grad. not worse as in the place sucks, but like the problems there. everywhere you look, kids are dirty. supposedly the problem is that hyde isn't "strict" enough, that people will sue if they take it to a boot camp level. but w/e i got kicke dout 2 times at woodstock, and my brother is this great hyde success story at bath. maybe it's just the campus, who knows?
Thank you for sharing this cogent, literate information with us. This has really changed my thinking on Hyde.
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This one gives a good insight into the mentality that is likely to come out of Hyde. I'm assuming he's considered a "success". He responded to someone's complaints about Hyde.
..... Stop ur bitching. Nothing makes someone worse unless that person just had it coming for them, so aparently you were fucked up enough to go to the school, and seeing for the fact you got kicked out doesnt say much on your half either..... No one "learns" to smoke pot at a boarding school. People learn to smoke pot because they have nothing better to do with themselves so think before you speak girl.
Bonney,
This post disappoints me. You say you want to be civil and adult and discuss the issues and that you would like to seriously know more about Hyde. But then you flagrantly disparage Hyde for no apparent reason by saying "this is the mentality that is likely to come out of Hyde". How can you inspire confidence in someone to take the time and enrergy to explain Hyde when your open-mindedness and willingness to listen/learn is suspect? Sorry, but that's what I'm seeing here...
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Fine, continue with the 'attack the messenger' tactic. Statement stands. Do you see nothing wrong with that mentality? These kids "had what what was coming to them"??
Trash talk me all you want. As long as you contribute to the discussion. Oh, wait. You really haven't. All you've done is attack me and my alleged "agenda".
Let me know when you're ready to have an adult discussion.
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Fine, continue with the 'attack the messenger' tactic. Statement stands. Do you see nothing wrong with that mentality? These kids "had what what was coming to them"??
Trash talk me all you want. As long as you contribute to the discussion. Oh, wait. You really haven't. All you've done is attack me and my alleged "agenda".
Let me know when you're ready to have an adult discussion.
:wave: Me, sorry.
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Kids don't deserve no goddamn rights, cuz they ain't no better than a bunch of fuckin NIGGERS! If mine ever try to "assert their rights" I'm gonna drag 'em out to the woodshed and tear up their uppity little asses.
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Kids don't deserve no goddamn rights, cuz they ain't no better than a bunch of fuckin NIGGERS! If mine ever try to "assert their rights" I'm gonna drag 'em out to the woodshed and tear up their uppity little asses.
:tup: You're goddamn right!!!!!
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Aherlk.
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Getting a little off-subject here...
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[/quote] Don't mean to bash you, but if indeed you went to Hyde and if
indeed you went to college, you invaribly would know that Hyde's education is practically non existent. I excel in college now, but it was made much harder because I did not have a good foundation at Hyde..[/quote]
I went to Hyde, did fine in college and went to grad school. It's what you make of it...
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I went to Hyde, did fine in college and went to grad school. It's what you make of it...
It's not advertised as that now is it? It's advertised as a therapeutic prep school supposedly to help kids that aren't doing well in school to begin with.
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I went to Hyde, did fine in college and went to grad school. It's what you make of it...
It's not advertised as that now is it? It's advertised as a therapeutic prep school supposedly to help kids that aren't doing well in school to begin with.
The only ads I've seen are for it as a school focusing on character and family education, not a therapeutic environment. Where did you see these ads you refer to advertising it as therapeutic?
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Semantics. Their advertisements talk of 'college prep' and 'character education'. Sounds like they're being provided with neither.
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Semantics. Their advertisements talk of 'college prep' and 'character education'. Sounds like they're being provided with neither.
Meaning is important when using words. The word "sematics" is used commonly by the unwashed to dismiss gradation of meaning, but those of us schooled in the formal use of language know those differences are key. I hope that was plain enough for you. Look it up.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/semantics (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/semantics)
I am sorry but I went to a secondary school with an enphisis on charater education not a private lockup or a mental hospital.
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Semantics. Their advertisements talk of 'college prep' and 'character education'. Sounds like they're being provided with neither.
I think you might be intellectually challenged. (which semantically means fucked up in the head)
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Semantics. Their advertisements talk of 'college prep' and 'character education'. Sounds like they're being provided with neither.
I think you might be intellectually challenged. (which semantically means fucked up in the head)
MMMM a nice tasty little ad hominim attact. Sign of a weak arument , weak mind or both. Thanks for that little bit of validation
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Semantics. Their advertisements talk of 'college prep' and 'character education'. Sounds like they're being provided with neither.
I think you might be intellectually challenged. (which semantically means fucked up in the head)
attact, arument Thank YOU for the validation
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Semantics. Their advertisements talk of 'college prep' and 'character education'. Sounds like they're being provided with neither.
I think you might be intellectually challenged. (which semantically means fucked up in the head)
attact, arument Thank YOU for the validation
Sweet! A spelling attack. Got anything else in your bag of trix Felix?
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Hey, when that's all ya got........
This place seems to have a lot of similarities with HLA. Same kind of thought reform, under qualified staff, under qualified teachers, strange little pervs hanging around even after they've been caught, the snitch culture and accusing anyone who has complaints of being 'disgruntled' and 'angry'. Funny how most of these places follow the same basic script. Ah well, at least HLA is now getting what's been coming for a long time.
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Hey, when that's all ya got........
This place seems to have a lot of similarities with HLA. Same kind of thought reform, under qualified staff, under qualified teachers, strange little pervs hanging around even after they've been caught, the snitch culture and accusing anyone who has complaints of being 'disgruntled' and 'angry'. Funny how most of these places follow the same basic script. Ah well, at least HLA is now getting what's been coming for a long time.
Yea Hyde is like SEED hyde is like STRAIGHT Hyde is like .... Any of you hyde bashers actually know where Bath Me is?
BTW What happened to Hidden Lake?
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Yea Hyde is like SEED hyde is like STRAIGHT Hyde is like .... Any of you hyde bashers actually know where Bath Me is?
Yep, even been there. These places do seem to have a lot in common. Too much.
BTW What happened to Hidden Lake?
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17700 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17700)
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Lawsuits aren't always an indicator of a problem, just that someone had a reason or desire to file one (or is an attorney with too much time on their hands...). What they do is put a party at risk of an outcome, which can alter their behavior, right or wrong.
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Don't send your kids to HLA...
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Lawsuits aren't always an indicator of a problem, just that someone had a reason or desire to file one (or is an attorney with too much time on their hands...). What they do is put a party at risk of an outcome, which can alter their behavior, right or wrong.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
? Henry VI, Part 2, Act IV, sc. ii
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Yea Hyde is like SEED hyde is like STRAIGHT Hyde is like .... Any of you hyde bashers actually know where Bath Me is?
Yep, even been there. These places do seem to have a lot in common. Too much.
BTW What happened to Hidden Lake?
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17700 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17700)
Ok here is the quiz:
You get off Route 1 North at the Bath/Phillipsburg exit. Which way do you turn to get to 616 High Street?
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Hey, when that's all ya got........
This place seems to have a lot of similarities with HLA. Same kind of thought reform, under qualified staff, under qualified teachers, strange little pervs hanging around even after they've been caught, the snitch culture and accusing anyone who has complaints of being 'disgruntled' and 'angry'. Funny how most of these places follow the same basic script. Ah well, at least HLA is now getting what's been coming for a long time.
Yea Hyde is like SEED hyde is like STRAIGHT Hyde is like .... Any of you hyde bashers actually know where Bath Me is?
BTW What happened to Hidden Lake?
I haven't been to Hyde but when I read through these threads (especially things like this http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=19252&start=0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=19252&start=0) ) it sounds very much like Straight. It's not just a few things here and there. Joe Gauld sounds very much like Miller Newton....a malignant narcissist. The whole structure of Hyde follows the same pattern that Straight did. The similarities are too great to ignore.
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Hey, when that's all ya got........
This place seems to have a lot of similarities with HLA. Same kind of thought reform, under qualified staff, under qualified teachers, strange little pervs hanging around even after they've been caught, the snitch culture and accusing anyone who has complaints of being 'disgruntled' and 'angry'. Funny how most of these places follow the same basic script. Ah well, at least HLA is now getting what's been coming for a long time.
Yea Hyde is like SEED hyde is like STRAIGHT Hyde is like .... Any of you hyde bashers actually know where Bath Me is?
BTW What happened to Hidden Lake?
I haven't been to Hyde but when I read through these threads (especially things like this http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=19252&start=0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=19252&start=0) ) it sounds very much like Straight. It's not just a few things here and there. Joe Gauld sounds very much like Miller Newton....a malignant narcissist. The whole structure of Hyde follows the same pattern that Straight did. The similarities are too great to ignore.
You sound like a broken record... why don't you stick to things you know about instead of making lame comparisons with something that is in an entirely different realm...
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Hey, when that's all ya got........
This place seems to have a lot of similarities with HLA. Same kind of thought reform, under qualified staff, under qualified teachers, strange little pervs hanging around even after they've been caught, the snitch culture and accusing anyone who has complaints of being 'disgruntled' and 'angry'. Funny how most of these places follow the same basic script. Ah well, at least HLA is now getting what's been coming for a long time.
Yea Hyde is like SEED hyde is like STRAIGHT Hyde is like .... Any of you hyde bashers actually know where Bath Me is?
BTW What happened to Hidden Lake?
I haven't been to Hyde but when I read through these threads (especially things like this http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=19252&start=0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=19252&start=0) ) it sounds very much like Straight. It's not just a few things here and there. Joe Gauld sounds very much like Miller Newton....a malignant narcissist. The whole structure of Hyde follows the same pattern that Straight did. The similarities are too great to ignore.
You sound like a broken record... why don't you stick to things you know about instead of making lame comparisons with something that is in an entirely different realm...
You guys were talking to the "Hyde bashers", a category I'm sure you include me in, so I responded. Do you have anything of substance to contribute to the discussion or do you just want to throw around meaningless insults?
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Hey, when that's all ya got........
This place seems to have a lot of similarities with HLA. Same kind of thought reform, under qualified staff, under qualified teachers, strange little pervs hanging around even after they've been caught, the snitch culture and accusing anyone who has complaints of being 'disgruntled' and 'angry'. Funny how most of these places follow the same basic script. Ah well, at least HLA is now getting what's been coming for a long time.
Yea Hyde is like SEED hyde is like STRAIGHT Hyde is like .... Any of you hyde bashers actually know where Bath Me is?
BTW What happened to Hidden Lake?
I haven't been to Hyde but when I read through these threads (especially things like this http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=19252&start=0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=19252&start=0) ) it sounds very much like Straight. It's not just a few things here and there. Joe Gauld sounds very much like Miller Newton....a malignant narcissist. The whole structure of Hyde follows the same pattern that Straight did. The similarities are too great to ignore.
You sound like a broken record... why don't you stick to things you know about instead of making lame comparisons with something that is in an entirely different realm...
You guys were talking to the "Hyde bashers", a category I'm sure you include me in, so I responded. Do you have anything of substance to contribute to the discussion or do you just want to throw around meaningless insults?
Anne,
please answer the quiz question
Neil Loughjizm
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Anne,
please answer the quiz question
Neil Loughjizm
Which question would that be Neil? There were quite a few.
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Anne,
please answer the quiz question
Neil Loughjizm
Which question would that be Neil? There were quite a few.
Ok here is the quiz:
You get off Route 1 North at the Bath/Phillipsburg exit. Which way do you turn to get to 616 High Street?
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Ok here is the quiz:
You get off Route 1 North at the Bath/Phillipsburg exit. Which way do you turn to get to 616 High Street?
Well, I guess I'll have to refer you to my previous post since you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension.
Here's what I said just a few posts up there ^^^^^. See it?:roll:
I haven't been to Hyde but when I read through these threads (especially things like this http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=19252&start=0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=19252&start=0) ) it sounds very much like Straight. It's not just a few things here and there. Joe Gauld sounds very much like Miller Newton....a malignant narcissist. The whole structure of Hyde follows the same pattern that Straight did. The similarities are too great to ignore.
Why is it so difficult for you to understand that I'm not the only one who sees some major problems with Hyde?
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what I find bizarre is this whole truth over harmony concept anyway. Really this is just phychobabble for the idea that you can be as rude as you want and the world wants to hear it and that spilling your guts to anyone who will listen is a good thing.
How does this work in the real world anyway? Does your average employer want to hear that you find him pompous or that you are taking the job for the money because you are a corporate whore? Does your fiance's conservative family who he is close to really wanna know about your previous struggle with alcohol addiction or how you overcame childhood abuse when you first meet them for dinner?
Some of these ideas if practiced in mainstream society would make a person a social outcast. For my money I would rather a kid get an education which focuses on the 3 rs and which emphasises "character" by encouraging community service and a good range of sports and perhaps if you are the old fashioned type emphasises good manners and social confidence.
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what I find bizarre is this whole truth over harmony concept anyway. Really this is just phychobabble for the idea that you can be as rude as you want and the world wants to hear it and that spilling your guts to anyone who will listen is a good thing.
How does this work in the real world anyway? Does your average employer want to hear that you find him pompous or that you are taking the job for the money because you are a corporate whore? Does your fiance's conservative family who he is close to really wanna know about your previous struggle with alcohol addiction or how you overcame childhood abuse when you first meet them for dinner?
Some of these ideas if practiced in mainstream society would make a person a social outcast. For my money I would rather a kid get an education which focuses on the 3 rs and which emphasises "character" by encouraging community service and a good range of sports and perhaps if you are the old fashioned type emphasises good manners and social confidence.
ALL TOO TRUE.
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what I find bizarre is this whole truth over harmony concept anyway. Really this is just phychobabble for the idea that you can be as rude as you want and the world wants to hear it and that spilling your guts to anyone who will listen is a good thing.
How does this work in the real world anyway? Does your average employer want to hear that you find him pompous or that you are taking the job for the money because you are a corporate whore? Does your fiance's conservative family who he is close to really wanna know about your previous struggle with alcohol addiction or how you overcame childhood abuse when you first meet them for dinner?
Some of these ideas if practiced in mainstream society would make a person a social outcast. For my money I would rather a kid get an education which focuses on the 3 rs and which emphasises "character" by encouraging community service and a good range of sports and perhaps if you are the old fashioned type emphasises good manners and social confidence.
ALL TOO TRUE.
I completely agree. All these "programs" are the same. Hyde calls itself a character based education but Hyde is just like the rest. I personally believe that it is unhealthy for young kids to hear some of the things Hyde encourages parents to divulge in these seminars. Any professional psychologist or psychiatrist would agree with this. Kids do not and should not hear about a mother 's trauma of finding her Mother hanging by a rope in the basement of their home. They also should not be exposed to hearing experiences of family rape.
This and more is experienced by all family members, no matter how old, when attending family weekends at Hyde. This is a SICK environment and I feel sorry for any of you who are sucked into this in the name of "character."
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I have a uqestion on this score. Having visited the Hyde Website, it does not present itself so much a therapeudic as sort of slightly montessoriesque, in that it believes education is more a hands on sort of thing that goes beyond the classroom. it also talks about character education. A lot of private religious schools are also big on character education in that they believe in discussing morality as central to education and they encourage community service
If I were a garden variety parent who briefly glanced at the Hyde site, I would potentially have it on the list. Particularly if i wanted this idea of morality and character but in a secular context or if my kid was not the purely academic type.
Are there many parents who enrol their kid at Hyde on this premise and then find out that there is more to it than meets the eye? Or is a visit to the school enough to make this clear?
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The postulated ideals are most laudable; certainly that was the clincher in my case. But before your initial interview is over, you're already sucked in by the insinuation that you are running away from a challenge by not attending, or that (you or) your goals are shallower/more superficial, more materialistic, or more primitive than theirs...
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The postulated ideals are most laudable; certainly that was the clincher in my case. But before your initial interview is over, you're already sucked in by the insinuation that you are running away from a challenge by not attending, or that (you or) your goals are shallower/more superficial, more materialistic, or more primitive than theirs...
I could not agree more. The Hyde ideals are laudable, as you say. That's what drew me in. Like you, it seems, within hours I realized that Hyde's laudable goals are so far from reality at the school. Sadly, many Hyde staff twist these goals in unimaginably destructive ways, mostly to suit their own pathological purposes. The distance between Hyde's public rhetoric and the lived reality is vast. What I find so depressing is the stark contrast between the core values, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, the punitive, arrogant, self-serving and destructive ways in which many Hyde staff treat students and parents. I am sickened by what I've seen in seminars, where staff and alumni parents patronize, insult, and berate students and other parents. This is particularly compelling when I see a kid who's obviously suffering from some major psychiatric problem get stomped on emotionally because he can't quite get the Hyde mantra. I think it's criminal that Hyde treats these kids this way; many of these kids shouldn't be at Hyde in the first place. While some staff are well meaning, the widespread incompetence and downright cruelty I've seen at Hyde has convinced me that Hyde is a terrible environment for a very large percentage of the people there. I wish I had known more about the school when I enrolled my child. At this point, Hyde feels like a horrible stain and no bleach well obliterate it.
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And you are left with the most horrible of all mind-fucks: "...if you can't make it at Hyde, you'll never make it anywhere..." (Like a good many of us had any choice in THAT matter, having been kicked out for not displaying enough "commitment" or "leadership qualities" or what ever; and WHO, pray tell, makes THAT qualified assessment?) ...it has reverberated in me for decades.
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And you are left with the most horrible of all mind-fucks: "...if you can't make it at Hyde, you'll never make it anywhere..." (Like a good many of us had any choice in THAT matter, having been kicked out for not displaying enough "commitment" or "leadership qualities" or what ever; and WHO, pray tell, makes THAT qualified assessment?) ...it has reverberated in me for decades.
I can testify to that. I got the "you are a waste of space on the human landscape" exit interview. I worked really well for me. I took it as a challenge. When I think back to all the crap they were talking about changing the world and where they got with it.... being rejected was a "good thing" When I think of the guy that did my exit interview, pacing the stage spouting tripe about committment, revolution, cultural change etc and look at the life he has lead and where he ended up as a mid level functionary in a so so institution a John lennon song comes to mind:
a pretty face may last a year
or two
but pretty soon they'll see
what you can do
the sound you make is muzak
to my ears
you must have learned
something all those years
how do you sleep?
ah how do you sleep at night?
Comfy in Kennebunk?
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The postulated ideals are most laudable; certainly that was the clincher in my case. But before your initial interview is over, you're already sucked in by the insinuation that you are running away from a challenge by not attending, or that (you or) your goals are shallower/more superficial, more materialistic, or more primitive than theirs...
I could not agree more. The Hyde ideals are laudable, as you say. That's what drew me in. Like you, it seems, within hours I realized that Hyde's laudable goals are so far from reality at the school. Sadly, many Hyde staff twist these goals in unimaginably destructive ways, mostly to suit their own pathological purposes. The distance between Hyde's public rhetoric and the lived reality is vast. What I find so depressing is the stark contrast between the core values, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, the punitive, arrogant, self-serving and destructive ways in which many Hyde staff treat students and parents. I am sickened by what I've seen in seminars, where staff and alumni parents patronize, insult, and berate students and other parents. This is particularly compelling when I see a kid who's obviously suffering from some major psychiatric problem get stomped on emotionally because he can't quite get the Hyde mantra. I think it's criminal that Hyde treats these kids this way; many of these kids shouldn't be at Hyde in the first place. While some staff are well meaning, the widespread incompetence and downright cruelty I've seen at Hyde has convinced me that Hyde is a terrible environment for a very large percentage of the people there. I wish I had known more about the school when I enrolled my child. At this point, Hyde feels like a horrible stain and no bleach well obliterate it.
Have you tried Shout?