Author Topic: AARC  (Read 23802 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2004, 06:27:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-12-18 23:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hey parents who are reading this, please know that the responses you are getting are from a non licensed lawyer and the rest being failures of the program... probably the last people you should ask if you believe your son needs help. They are likely to tell you to buy him some drugs and ween him off. "

That's just the sort of crap some of the supporters of AARC would give you.  Try to convince you that the lawyer who has posted on this site is a phony when in fact anybody who has read this site over a long period of time knows that Hamiltonf is a real lawyer and not only that, if you need Legal Aid will give you the real information you need to get a hold of lawyers in Calgary.
Remember, there is no legal reason that you can be kept in AARC against your will.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2004, 06:28:00 PM »
Telling people to be ashamed of themselves is also a prime example of the crap your kid can learn in AARC.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2004, 01:33:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-12-19 03:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-12-18 23:02:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Hey parents who are reading this, please know that the responses you are getting are from a non licensed lawyer and the rest being failures of the program... probably the last people you should ask if you believe your son needs help. They are likely to tell you to buy him some drugs and ween him off. "


That's just the sort of crap some of the supporters of AARC would give you.  Try to convince you that the lawyer who has posted on this site is a phony when in fact anybody who has read this site over a long period of time knows that Hamiltonf is a real lawyer and not only that, if you need Legal Aid will give you the real information you need to get a hold of lawyers in Calgary.

Remember, there is no legal reason that you can be kept in AARC against your will."
Are you joking? Hamilton openly admited in a thread long time ago that he was unlicensed. If you are under 18 and were signed in by your parents or court ordered. You are either legally obligated to stay there, or in the custody of Aarc, Im surprised you legal wizards haven't figured that one out yet.   :roll:

Oh, and are you saying people shouldnt feel ashamed of filthy behaviour? Time to sing hare krishna.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2004, 01:36:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-12-19 01:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hey loser read the goddamn thread before you reply. I escaped AARC, and my parents have since apologized for ever putting me through that shit. Infact, they thanked me for running from that crazy fucking institution of lies, which made it nearly impossible for even them to withdraw me by their own discretion.



And before you say anything, I'm still sober. You should feel ashamed of yourself for supporting such mentally and emotionally destructive ideals."
Your parents were sick of you, signed you in, and didnt have the balls to stick it out. You also claim you are still sober... so howe can you question its effectiveness? You werent sober before you went in. Sounds like a good program to me if you could spend a short time there and still remain sober after :wink:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2004, 08:02:00 AM »
I was a full blown addict before I started having lobster for dinner every night.  Funny, now that I eat the lobster, I don't drink anymore......must have been the lobster!!!! :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2004, 09:43:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-12-22 22:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote
Your parents were sick of you, signed you in, and didnt have the balls to stick it out. You also claim you are still sober... so howe can you question its effectiveness? You werent sober before you went in. Sounds like a good program to me if you could spend a short time there and still remain sober after :wink:"


Actually, if you had read the thread, you'd know that I went to Hazelden in Minnesota following AARC. I attribute my sobreity today to the latter program 100%.

Also, regarding your comment toward my family and I not having "the balls" to stick out AARC; I think that most people would agree that submitting to a program that denies nearly all of your (legally entitled) personal freedoms is more indicative of a shortcoming in one's testicular department. But please, continue to make baseless claims about my situation, which you seem to know so much about, you fucking mentally-indentured drone.
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Offline Hamiltonf

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« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2004, 11:43:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-12-22 22:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-12-19 03:27:00, Anonymous wrote:


"
Quote


On 2004-12-18 23:02:00, Anonymous wrote:



"Hey parents who are reading this, please know that the responses you are getting are from a non licensed lawyer and the rest being failures of the program... probably the last people you should ask if you believe your son needs help. They are likely to tell you to buy him some drugs and ween him off. "




That's just the sort of crap some of the supporters of AARC would give you.  Try to convince you that the lawyer who has posted on this site is a phony when in fact anybody who has read this site over a long period of time knows that Hamiltonf is a real lawyer and not only that, if you need Legal Aid will give you the real information you need to get a hold of lawyers in Calgary.


Remember, there is no legal reason that you can be kept in AARC against your will."

Are you joking? Hamilton openly admited in a thread long time ago that he was unlicensed. If you are under 18 and were signed in by your parents or court ordered. You are either legally obligated to stay there, or in the custody of Aarc, Im surprised you legal wizards haven't figured that one out yet.   ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin:: [ This Message was edited by: Hamiltonf on 2004-12-23 20:47 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2004, 12:48:00 AM »
And once again, after 13 years, close to 300 graduate families, tons of other people in an dout, no law suits, TV exposes, etc etc. What's going on? If all this terrible stuff is happening, isn't it your duty as an officer of the court to stop it? But of course, that would take evidence of wrong doing. I think you just like to see your comments in print. Sad.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2004, 02:23:00 AM »
I think what is really sad is that the defenders of AARC feel that they have to resort to outright lies, misrepresentation and deception to propagate their spurious claims.
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Offline Hamiltonf

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« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2004, 03:06:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-12-23 21:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

"And once again, after 13 years, close to 300 graduate families, tons of other people in and out, no law suits, TV exposes, etc etc. What's going on? If all this terrible stuff is happening, isn't it your duty as an officer of the court to stop it? But of course, that would take evidence of wrong doing. I think you just like to see your comments in print. Sad."

I'm not concerned with launching law suits, I'm merely concerned that people are properly informed of their rights and that they know that they cannot be forced to remain when they do not want to.  They need to know their rights so that they can assert their rights and not be afraid.  Moreover, this thread was started (purportedly) by someone who was making an enquiry.  They need to be informed of all of the ramifications of this type of treatment and the risks that they face.  Many of these cults have been around for much longer than AARC.  Some have been closed down by governments, some have been sued and had to pay out millions in dollars to victims, but still morph into other versions of the same thing.  In the great scheme of things, 300 "happy families" over thirteen years averages only 23 families per year.  That's not very many considering the millions of dollars involved in the place.  I'm sure that other places less devoted to "breaking down" the psyche are much more
successful.  

and you said it " tons of other people in and out"  .   One can only assume that the "tons of others in and out are those who AARC would rather not talk about or would demean as being "failures"  because they haven't bought into the ideology of the cult.

Why should anybody launch a law suit who hasn't suffered any damage, has realised their rights, has got out before any harm was done?
and you say:
"isn't it your duty as an officer of the court to stop it?"
You should think about that comment.  Perhaps you believe lawyers emulate Don Quixote?

Said he riding off into the sunset....

 :rofl:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2004, 09:04:00 AM »
What an altruist and idealist you are! but go into action oh defender of the rights of others? No, just sling mud, slander a successful propram by calling it a cult, and try to belittle their success by talking about how they have only graduated 23 families a year on average. But your analogy is correct. Tilting at windmills is bang on. Except you don't have the courage to even saddle up.Stay in your ivory tower an hurl insults. Its much safer. I just pray your grandchildren never show up with a drug problem, and after being taught moderated usage at a government run day program are in real trouble, treatment resistent and victim to drugs like meth and coke. I guess we would see how high and mighty you are then.

Merry Christmas!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #56 on: December 24, 2004, 11:16:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-12-24 06:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What an altruist and idealist you are! but go into action oh defender of the rights of others? No, just sling mud, slander a successful propram by calling it a cult, and try to belittle their success by talking about how they have only graduated 23 families a year on average. But your analogy is correct. Tilting at windmills is bang on. Except you don't have the courage to even saddle up. Stay in your ivory tower an hurl insults. Its much safer. I just pray your grandchildren never show up with a drug problem, and after being taught moderated usage at a government run day program are in real trouble, treatment resistent and victim to drugs like meth and coke. I guess we would see how high and mighty you are then.



Merry Christmas!"

Ah, the truth will out.  You said, "I just pray your grandchildren never show up with a drug problem, and after being taught moderated usage at a government run day program are in real trouble, treatment resistent and victim to drugs like meth and coke."
First, it'll never happen. But you have revealed that yours ARE in real trouble.  Given the attitudes you have revealed about yourself, why am I not surprised?
Second, how much of their being "victims" is a direct result of the scare tactics and lies that are part and parcel of the "war on drugs"
Third, ever heard of self-fulfilling prophecies?  
The flaw in the whole attitude relating to addiction is that it is necessary to completely abstain. Maintenance programs in Europe are proving otherwise.
re: "But your analogy is correct. Tilting at windmills is bang on."
I thought you'd like that.  In fact, I have practical hands on experience with so-called "drug-problem" cases every day, though I prefer to call it the "prohibition problem", or the "self-righteous fundamentalist problem" .    
I can understand your bitterness.  But really. Destroying a personality to save it leaves it distorted and unable to deal with real life.
And it is not I that have hurled insults, defamation and lies, my friend.  Just look over your own posts, and see how you have managed to duck and weave, twist snd turn.   Your credibility is now shot as you have been hoist on your own petard.  I just hope that the readers of this site are able to appreciate that.

Enjoy your Xmas.
I hope I'm not too much of a grinch for you and that you will in the end see my point.  And by the way, if you want a referral to someone who can empower your grandchildren to deal with their problem without being destroyed in the process, please do not hesitate to contact me by private message.
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Offline Hamiltonf

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« Reply #57 on: December 24, 2004, 11:19:00 AM »
Oops, that last post was mine.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #58 on: December 24, 2004, 02:46:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-12-24 06:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

". I just pray your grandchildren never show up with a drug problem, and after being taught moderated usage at a government run day program are in real trouble, treatment resistent and victim to drugs like meth and coke. I guess we would see how high and mighty you are then.



Merry Christmas!"


Funny, my kids went through their bout with drugs.  After what I went through there was NO WAY I was going to put them in a program. The key to raising well rounded children is to be involved in their lives. Sending them off to be "fixed" is just a cop out. In fact, my oldest got fairly heavy into drugs but I knew that if I let her experience her own consequences she would learn more than if I FORCED her to change.  She's doing so well now, getting ready for nursing school, lives on her own and is a contributing member of society.  How come I did LESS drugs than her but came out screwed up and she was left to grow on her own and came out great????
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Offline Hamiltonf

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« Reply #59 on: December 24, 2004, 02:55:00 PM »
Perhaps the answer lies in this article:
Addiction Is a Choice, by Jeffrey A. Schaler, Ph.D. Open Court, 2000, 179 pages.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hooked on Addiction

By Jeff Riggenbach

Liberty Magazine
September, 2000, pages 65-66

Most people who oppose the War on Drugs - including, alas, most libertarians - never question the propaganda that is used to justify it. "Yes," they say, "it's true: drug use destroys the user's health and, not infrequently, his entire life. We stipulate to that. But, after all, people have a right to destroy themselves." Or, alternately, they say, "But, after all, the results of attempting to prohibit these drugs are even worse than the (undeniably horrible) effects of the drugs themselves."

The question is whether the effects of drugs like marijuana, cocaine, or heroin really are all that horrible. And the answer is no, they aren't. The history of the War on Drugs, which goes back more than a hundred years to the first drug prohibition laws adopted in San Francisco and other localities in the late 19th century, is overgrown with the exaggerations, oversimplifications, and outright lies of anti-drug propagandists. The result is a tangled thicket of mostly baseless myths. Anyone interested in the truth about "dangerous drugs" and the American war to stamp them out must hack his way through the thicket in order to find the truth. There's the myth of "addiction," the myth of the "heroin overdose death," the myth that "drugs cause crime," the myth that "drugs cause poverty and ill health," and the myth of "drug treatment," to name just a few of the more pernicious.

Jeffrey Schaler, a psychologist in private practice who counts teaching posts at American University and Johns Hopkins among his academic credits, explodes two of these myths: "addiction" and "drug treatment." Anyone who labors under the delusion that drug addicts are helpless to control or change their bad habits without "drug treatment" desperately needs to read his new book Addiction Is a Choice.

Schaler begins his line of inquiry by asking the fundamental question, "What is addiction?" He answers that until about two hundred years ago, the word "addiction" was universally understood in English-speaking countries to mean "commitment, dedication, devotion, inclination, bent, or attachment." He beings his Introduction and eleven of his thirteen chapters with quotations, many of them charming, from writers of the 16th through 19th centuries. In each quotation, the word "addiction" is used in its original sense. Thus we read of addiction to virginity, to melancholy, to the dance, to hot countries, to sports, to other people's money (written, not surprisingly, of members of the ruling class), and, inevitably, to vice.

In the late 18th and early 19th centuries, Schaler explains, activists and writers in the Temperance Movement (and certain medical doctors too - the American Benjamin Rush and the Scot Thomas Trotters among them) began speaking of addiction as something quite different. Now, suddenly, one was addicted, not to, say drunkenness, but to alcohol itself. And this addiction was to be looked upon as a disease, from which the addict was suffering.

Schaler writes:

"Neither Rush nor Trotter offered scientific evidence to support this new claim, but Rush was a powerful rhetorician and exerted an influence on public opinion. The newly invented medical language grew to be accepted as fact."

Schaler examines this new theory, which he calls the "disease model," in detail. "If addiction is a disease," he writes, "it's either a bodily or a mental disease." There is a problem with regarding addiction as a physical disease, however. It doesn't have the right characteristics. As Schaler puts it, "pathology . . . requires an identifiable alteration in bodily tissue, a change in the cells of the body, for disease classification." This is the reason that "a simple test of a true physical disease is whether it can be shown to exist in a corpse. There are no bodily signs of addiction itself (as opposed to its effects) that can be identified in a dead body. Addiction is therefore not listed in standard pathology textbooks."

Schaler acknowledges that "a doctor might conclude that someone with cirrhosis of the liver and other bodily signs had partaken of alcoholic beverages heavily over a long period, and might infer that the patient was an 'alcoholic,'" but this doesnot show that there are bodily signs of addiction. As he observes a few pages later:

". . . diseases are medical conditions. They can be discovered on the basis of bodily signs. They are something people have. They are involuntary. For example, the disease of syphilis was discovered. It is identified by specific signs. It is not a form of activity and is not based in human values. While certain behaviors increase the likelihood of acquiring syphilis, and while the acquisition of syphilis has consequences for subsequent social interaction, the behavior and the disease are separate phenomena. Syphilis meets the nosological critera for disease classification in a pathology textbook. Unlike addiction, syphilis is a disease that can be diagnosed in a corpse."

Well, then, is addiction a mental disease, a "mental illness"? The American Psychiatric Association, Schaler tells us, does not list addiction in its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV. The Association does list certain "substance-related disorders" in the manula, but, as Schaler comments, "they would not fit the category of organic disorders because they are described in terms of behavior only. They would conceivably fit the functional disorder category but probably would be subordinated to one of the established [functional] disorders such as discouragement or anxiety." These "functional disorders," Schaler writers, "are mental in the sense that they involve mental activities." But "as [Thomas] Szasz has pointed out, they are diseases only in a metaphorical sense."

Perhaps the most telling comment Schaler makes on the "disease model" comes during his first references to Alcoholics Anonymous, whose Twelve Step Program is the basis for almost all of the "drug treatment" programs into which local, state and federal governments in this country pour taxpayers' money. Alcoholics Anonymous, he maintains, is nothing more nor less than a "religious cult."

To say that Alcoholics Anonymous is a religious cult is not, of course, to say that it is ineffective. But, in fact, it is. As Schaler puts it,

"treatment generally doesn't work. "Ill repeat that: addiction treatments do not work. This doesn't mean that individuals never give up their addiction after treatment. It's simply that they don't seem to do so at any higher rate than without treatment. One treatment tends to be just about as effective as any other treatment, which is just about as effective as no treatment at all."

In Schaler's view, addiction is not a "disease" that requires "treatment"; it is a choice that requires individual responsibility. "Drugs don't cause addiction," he writers. "No thing can 'addict' any person. Moreover, addiction doesn't mean you can't control your behavior. You can always control your own behavior. Drugs are inanimate objects. They have no will or power of their own."

Why, then, do people choose to use drugs? "People use legal and illegal drugs like Prozac and heroin," Schaler answers, "to avoid coping with their lives. The reasons people avoid coping with their lives may be judged good or bad. Addiction is the expression of a person's values. Therefore, whenever we talk or write about addiction we are dealing with an ethical issue, not a medical one. Addiction is not a disease, nor is addiction a public health problem. Addiction is a choice."

The myth of addiction has made ignominous contributions to public issues other than the War on Drugs, of course. It is, after all, the nonsensical concept of the addictiveness of tobacco that has been used to justify the recent financial assault on cigarette manufacturers by larcenous state governments and unscrupulous personal injury lawyers. Jeffrey Schaler's crusading little book is poised to do a whole world of good, if only it can reach and persuade a broad enough public. Let us fervently hope that it does so.

Copyright, 2000, Liberty Magazine
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uote of the Year
The Bush administration has succeeded in making the United States one of the most feared and hated countries in the world. The talent of these guys is unbelievable. They have even succeeded at alienating Canada. I mean, that takes ge