Danny wrote:
Ursus if I remember correctly you were advocating back on the JRC thread for children with Aspergers, High Functioning Autism and other disabilities, for their parents to place them back in the public school system. Now mind you I am not advocating JRC but just say'in that public schools are not the answer either.
Ursus wrote:
The idea is "least restrictive" environment.
Danny wrote:
So just so I understand you call "the idea" of public schools a less restrictive enviroment. Are you talking a special program within the public school or just throwing them in there with the population.
Obviously, it depends on the kid. Some need very little accommodation, some need a special program within the public school for at least part of the time.
Ursus wrote:
The ultimate goal is self-sufficiency, or as close to it as possible. Since the feasibility of realizing that goal is quite high and quite probable when it comes to Aspies and high-functioning Autistics, it makes little sense to take a kid out of the mainstream when it isn't necessary.
Danny wrote:
Ursus I am not the sharpest pencil around here but even I know your reaching for the stars thinking that these children can make it in the mainstream. Their motor skills at ages 6-12 are well below other children let alone their cognitive and social skills, they have to be adjusted before they can function in society without being inculcated (never used that word before). Ursus you know this too. Public school whether in Harlem or West Hartford Ct is not going to prevent the inevitable.
Ursus wrote:
LOL. I really have to BITE my lip here! Do you even know what Asperger's syndrome and high functioning autism entail? Just read up a little on Temple Grandin with regard to what a high functioning Autistic can aspire to... Geeezzz Louise! And here's a little more on her:
Video and story on Grandin from CNN.com: Why autism is a gift[/list]
Danny wrote:
OK I'll bite here myself, before I go any futher do explain to me please what are your credentials in this field, do you have a degree in something related to these disabilities, do you have a doctorate in this field, are you a consultant to the professionals in this field.
Ursus I am not going to read a post or web site then come on here and because I intellectually understood what they said then plagiarize what they said. If I don't experience it personally I usually don't have much to say. See it is not important to me to sound intelligent, obviously...lol. What I do want to convey through my limited dyslexic vocabulary is a sense of truth. That even though I may not be a wordsmith I am talking my truth. My truth here is this.
From my early years of life, 7 yrs old to be exact. My aunt brought into her family a Asperger child by the name of Dorothy and a Autistic child by the name of Joey. Dorothy survives to this day she is married had children and now has grandchildren. Joey died much to early from complications due to his Autism. Now Dorothy does not mind me mentioning her name because she follows conversations at times that concern her. The JRC thread was a very interesting conversation.
So Ursus as you can see If I want to know something about autism or aspergers I can either ask Dorothy or her mother my aunt. Now also I can bring my moms experience in here to this conversation because this was her sister who raised these children. I think my mom also brings something else to this conversation she was a teacher for 42 years in the Rhode Island and Connecticut Schools System. Her last 22 years was with Connecticut schools with a program called CREC, Capitol Region Education Council. In her capacity with Crec she worked in the vocational educatinal, Food Service. Now the children she worked with came from troubled backgrounds and had various learning disabilities. Her opinions on having children in the school system with disabilities that could cause harm to them if put in the general population was very clear, no. She had seen enough incompetence with the school administration to know they would fall through the cracks.
Last here Dorothy keeps me up to date on what is happening concerning Aspergers, high functioning autism and autism if that isn't good enough my aunt is still alive and her personal experience is good enough.
Ursus I am not a gifted writer because I suffer from dyslexia: A partial definition is below.
Dyslexia is a specific learning disability that is neurological in origin.
It is characterized by difficulties with accurate and/or fluent word recognition, and by poor spelling and decoding abilities.
These difficulties typically result from a deficit in the phonological component of language that is often unexpected in relation to other cognitive abilities and the provision of effective classroom instruction.
Secondary consequences may include problems in reading comprehension and reduced reading experience that can impede growth of vocabulary and background knowledge. and this is only the half of it....yet I still managed to succeed in life. So please everyone continue to laugh and snicker at my grammar and vocabulary, I also do it when I read what I have wrote sometimes. It is like whaaaaaaat is it....lol. You could only imagine what I went through in the mid 60's and early 70's with this disadvantage in school, peer pressure was very degrading. I was laughed at by other students, teachers were frustrated due to lack of education themselves so they took it out on me. I am not complaining here I am just pointing out a reality I faced everyday at school. I could only imagine if I had the disabilities were talking about here, regardless of where I went to school. You really think schools in different economic geographics will make a difference. Definitely did not help that girl from Ireland from being bullied to the point of suicide and she grew up in a wealthy district in Weymouth Mass.
Ursus I say you are mistaken in your assessment because Dorothy was not put in that situation she was home schooled but my aunt always said that if she could have found a program that dealt specifically with these disability she would have considered placing her there, not a TC Ursus. But she would never had placed her a the mercy of the public school system and my mother echoed that sentiment.
I also have a sister working in the school system in Hartford Ct. she also has her opinions but I think her passionate nature could be worse then mine, only kidding. But once again she would not trust the public school system.
I really do my homework before I speak Ursus, as we spoke about before about JRC this is a personal.
Ursus wrote
If anything, it presents yet another problematic transition and social environment that the kid needs to learn and adjust to, one that will, in all likelihood, have little or nothing to do with his or her life in the real world
Danny wrote:
Not if they are started out in a specialized (Non-TC Methodology) program specifically centered on their disabilities.
Ursus wrote:
They may not need it. Actually, high school is usually considered to be the worst time. That's when being able to "fit in with your peers" generally becomes so all-important, and feels like so painfully obvious a short-coming to some. But most will survive just fine with but a little tweaking of the basic paradigm.
Danny wrote:
Your confident of that just a little tweaking, your talking like you are in this field as a profession. Is this true, I am not fishing I am asking a legitimate question, because if you are then I have more questions. I don't profess to know everything about this subject but I do think I have a bit.
Ursus wrote:
Moreover, since these programs all pretty much rely on TC-derived "positive peer culture" environments to do their inculcating, this can be, depending on the personality of the kid, potentially lethal. You put an introspective, socially-inhibited Aspie into an environment like that, you're asking for a bully fest.
Danny wrote:
First off I don't believe anybody in their right mind had a concept like what your explaining here in mind. A bully fest you don't even need the other kids the teachers will do it to them. Nobody within the public school environment has the capability of dealing with this type of student and you know this. So they end up being separated from the population and put in special classes down the hall and that is when the bully fest will start. Ya know the "short bus".
No,my opinion is have them in a totally separate site and work with them, gradually integrate them into society maybe into public school for the very high end of functionality. Don't start them there.
Ursus wrote:
It really depends on the kid. Again, do you even know what comprises Asperger's syndrome and high functioning autism?
Danny wrote:
Well you have asked me this question again and I will say I don't believe I understand your definition. So please explain.
Ursus wrote:
As far as public schools go, it really depends mostly on the neighborhood and/or town, doesn't it? If you think that what's going on in a PS in Grosse Point, Michigan or Manhasset, Long Island can possibly compare with what's going on in a PS in the South Bronx, you are seriously delusional.
Danny wrote:
I would watch what you are saying here you almost sound like you are separating and maybe some folk would not like your reference, ya know what I mean. Just say'in.
Ursus wrote:
Just what are you trying to say here? Are you trying to dissuade me from pointing out the obvious, namely, that not all public schools are equivalent when it comes to the quality of the education one receives, that local poverty does effect the quality of services one does or does not receive at school, and that some schools have significant problems with bullying and others do not ?
Danny wrote:
No obviously I can't do that.....lol. I just thought for our various readers you could be a tad more delicate. Seems ironic coming from me eh....lol. I will not argue your point though.
danny
