Trying to figure out your angle

[Karly]

I'm sorry - but you obviously just cannot control your over-reactional nature long enough to read or think clearly!!!  That's too bad for you.  But oh well- at least there is a still whole world of people out there who can read and can think clearly!!!

G'Day!

[Firebird81]

Nice try, Karly, really. Good strategy there. When presented with the truth and when challenged to actually back up your wild claims and research them yourself before irresponsibly posting them on a blog, you accuse me of doing exactly what you are doing.

[OverLordd]

Yay!!! Some one from the Teen Challenge Staff! I can finally rip into you for the pain and suffering you caused a friend of mine!!!

To begin with, I had a friend, this friend was into certin alternative life styles. She was tricked into going to Teen Challenge. There her atlernative life style was challenged and she was forced to change, she was not given a choice, she was not allowed to agrue, and you changed who she was.

This is a major issue for me. Christianity is a choice. Programs like yours, and people like you are poor representaives of christ. You are heritics, people like you were once burned at the stake. Then again so was my friend.

The fact of the matter is that you don't represent Christ or God, or any type of Godly behavior. And if you decide to argue the point, I will rip your agrument to shreads, please try if you want. I was bored all day today. I could use a laugh.

[Firebird81]

Yay!!! Some one from the Teen Challenge Staff! I can finally rip into you for the pain and suffering you caused a friend of mine!!!

oh please feel free.

To begin with, I had a friend, this friend was into certin alternative life styles. She was tricked into going to Teen Challenge. There her atlernative life style was challenged and she was forced to change, she was not given a choice, she was not allowed to agrue, and you changed who she was.

What she WAS allowed to do was leave a program she didn't agree with. Teen Challenge does not force people to change. If someone does not want to change they are asked to leave or leave themselves.  Are you saying she was a lesbian? How was she changed? I am assuming that she might ahve come out confused about what felt natural to her vs. what Teen Challenge told her on the subject. I am truly sorry for her if that is the case. I wouldn't say I have seen many homosexuals in the men's program, but there have been a few and I would see them try to adhere to a non-homosexual lifestyle and their failure to do so resulted in some of the most scandalous moments in southern California teen Challenge. It's really kind of hard to put a gay man in a progam surrounded by nothing but other men, many of whom work out regularly and are in good shape and tell him that it's wrong for him to want them. his very nature goes against it.

This is a major issue for me. Christianity is a choice. Programs like yours, and people like you are poor representaives of christ. You are heritics, people like you were once burned at the stake. Then again so was my friend.

Yes, Christianity is a choice. Teen Challenge does not try to coerce ANYONE into Christianity. Applicants are told beforehand that this is a Christian progam. They are given a copy of the rules to read and sign the last page stating that they have read and agree to abide by those rules. This is before they are accepted. No one is tricked into going into TC blindly. As far as theology, TC abides by the exact same theology taught in every Baptist, Pentecostal, Lutheran, Presbyterian or any other mainstream denomination you can think of.

The fact of the matter is that you don't represent Christ or God, or any type of Godly behavior. And if you decide to argue the point, I will rip your agrument to shreads, please try if you want. I was bored all day today. I could use a laugh.

I supposed you hateful, spiteful, arrogant attitude represents godly behavior?

[nimdA]

What is wrong with being a homosexual?

[Antigen]

That's really not a compelling argument, Firebird. All these programs say the same thing and they're all lying.

[OverLordd]

Ok, you say she was alowed to leave. Lets look at the options here to support that she was not really coerced. She was allowed to leave you say. Ok, so her parents were suposed to come down and get her? What if they wouldent? They were trying to force her into the program anyway. Was staff going to drive her home? Or was she just alowed to walk out? gee, a 16 to 17 year old girl in the middle of a major city, without any resorces, sounds safe dose it not? She was forced to go because of the options presented to her.

She was a homosexual, and a wiccian. A alternative religion if there ever was one.

Your Assemblies of God, your not main line, your pentacostal. Dont you dare compair Assemblies of God to Baptist of Lutheran. You believe in laying hands on healing, you believe in speaking in tongues, thats all herticial at worst, self deception at best. Those gifts ended at the end of the apostolic era, when there were no more apostles to continue the gift. While you do follow the main points theologically, largely your a bunch of snake handelers.

As for your last snide comment, I do believe God has killed people in both the old and new testaments, again and again, conistantly condeming those that do wrong. God gets angry, and I can to.

[BuzzKill]

///You believe in laying hands on healing, you believe in speaking in tongues, thats all herticial at worst, self deception at best. Those gifts ended at the end of the apostolic era, when there were no more apostles to continue the gift. While you do follow the main points theologically, largely your a bunch of snake handelers. ///

I would like to respectfully disagree overlord.

Those who say the gifts came to an end are only reaching for an excuse for their lack of them. Their faith is often luke warm, at best.
See Rev. 3 and the letter to Laodicea.

Those who say the gift's of the Holy Sprit only came to those whom the Apostles touched - the laying on of their hands - are just wrong. Read the book of Acts. Read Paul's first letter to the Corinthians. In I Corinthian's chapter 13 for example, you'll read about when the gifts shall end - and it has not yet come to pass for any of us  

In Chapter 14 Paul outlines the various gifts - tell us to ask for them - even the best of them - He dose not say find an apostle and have him lay hands on you - He says if you want the Holy Sprit to provide you with His gifts - Ask.

In Acts you'll read how whole groups had the Sprit fall upon them and how gentiles were also blessed.

The gifts from the Holy Sprit are as Biblical as the message of Salvation. Would you say the fruits of the Sprit have ceased? I think not - so why would the gifts?

Still, I will acknowledge that there is a great deal of false teaching among some A of G and Pentecostal groups. I think they do sometimes approach heresy - sometimes they produce false prophets and teachers - as evil in their motives and teaching as any cult leader. I often fear that the sprit let loose upon their congregations is not at all Holy.

This is why I advise people not to assume any teacher or preacher is to be believed. Read the Book yourself, and take from it what understanding  the Sprit provides. Ask for understanding before you open the Book - and know that each time you do this, your understanding will increase. In this way a believer can go from milk to meat.

A good Biblical teacher can be invaluable - but you should never assume any man has the whole truth; or is free from mistaken notions.

I will go on to add, if you can find a Messianic Jew who understands the Jewishness of the Biblical text - and who can explain the various interpretations of the Greek and Hebrew - you will have found someone worth listening to. Not that they too don't make mistakes - but they can help a great deal in understanding the deeper meanings of many passages.

[Michael Kincheloe]

Those gifts ended at the end of the apostolic era
--------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely true. I Corinthians says that miracles will cease, tongues will cease, and knowledge will fade away. This does not mean knowledge per se, but the kind of knowledge that the men who wrote the Bible are said to have received from above. Joseph Smith claimed to have received this kind of knowledge, but that's another subject entirely.

[BuzzKill]

Joseph Smith claimed to have received this kind of knowledge, but that's another subject entirely.

2 Corinthians 11

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.



Galatians 1:8

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

[nimdA]

This is a great thread.

FUNDIE FIGHT!

Watching x-tians pussy slap each other over differences of their sects is fucking hilarious.

[Dr Fucktard]

Leviticus 20:9
For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall
be upon him.

Proverbs 22:15
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
 
Isaiah 45:7 (God speaking)
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”

[OverLordd]

To begin with, you can bite me TSW, say something productive before we decide to go Inqusition on your heathen ass...        :lol:

Seriously though, say something that adds to the conversation.

Dr. Fucktard, you cant just pick stuff out of the bible, you have to check the context, whats going on in the chapter, and even the translation your using. You will notice Buzzkill picked out entire chapeters, and groups of verses.

And as for you Buzzkill. There is a differance between the fruits of the spirit and the aposolic gifts. The fruits of the spirit are evidence of the holy spirt in ones life. More ove all your referances are in the apostolic era, there are no referances to these gifts outside that era in scripture, no referances in the old testament, nor any referances after the letters. In Rev is mentions prophcey and visions and alike, but seriously, we are no where close to revalations, the world is not nearly that bad yet.

But accusing people who have no manafested gifts of having a luke warm faith is almost absurd, the gifts are not even a centeral tenant of the faith, if you believe in them or not.

[Antigen]

This is a great thread.

FUNDIE FIGHT!

Watching x-tians pussy slap each other over differences of their sects is fucking hilarious.

Given, given. But you must admit, to be perfectly fair, that none can match the ingenuity of the Irish. They share the same blood lines and heritage originating from a very small island. The share the same basic religion and language. And yet they've been able to sustain this silly argument for nearly 300 years.

[Nihilanthic]

We're all going to rot in the ground until the sun blows up and burns the earth into dust anyway...

Why not drop this shit and go enjoy what we have? Its all we have and all there will ever be.