Theological and scriptural examination of Magnolia Christian

[OverLordd]

Ok, well its been a while since I offered anything of any substance on this forum so I believe its time for alittle academic exercise.

If there is one thing that gets my blood boiling its when christians develop programs in the industry and sling around God's name like he has something to do with the harm and pain a child faces on a regular basis in places like these. I hate it when they claim to be christian and doing God's work, because if there is one thing they are not doing its Gods work.

Because of my schooling and some of my studies I have a unique abilty to combat those that claim to be doing the work of God. So, what follows is a Biblical commentary on Magnolia Christian Center.

If you will orient your self to this web page please.

http://http://magnoliachristiancenter.net/Respect.htm

You can take a look at their camp quicky, a 30 to 60 day boot camp like program meant for instant obidence.

Magnolia Christian Center offers a new type of camp designed for the teenage boy who needs immediate intervention by trained instructors to teach discipline, respect, and pride in young men who are headed for trouble. The focuses on structure, discipline, and exercise to reach troubled teens who might not respond to other programs.

Ok, now, some would ask, so what, sounds all good and bible like, dicipline, respect, pride. But the fact of the mater is not what it teaches, but how it tries to teach it. If you consider the idea of a camp like this, with a 30 to 60 day time table, it is a quick fix issue. This quick fix is not what God looks for. God does not look for obidence. God looks for a change in heart, and God looks for love. You cannot have discipline, respect, or pride if there is not underlying principle support. Principles can only be developed in the long term and not with one hour of core value trainning a day. Obidence does not fix humanity, love does, this program seems to be lacking.

Moving on to next section

http://magnoliachristiancenter.net/Structure.htm

Please observe the picture on this section of the young man looking alittle severe. I dont know if this is part of the disapline camp, but chritianity is hardly militant, and I quiet firmly disagree with orginizations that try to mix the two.
Moving down the page I direct your attention to the fact youth attend devotional groups. Forcing any youth to attend a church service, devotional group, or whatever, is very much against some basic christian principles. The Christian God is a God of choice, either you chose to do what he wishes you to, or you don't, God does not force indviduals to complete mundain tasks under the new covenant. We are useless to God if we are joyless and are forced to attend biblical services.

Next Page

http://magnoliachristiancenter.net/Faith.htm

More of the same about being forced to go to a church service, but I would like to point out that they are given by a Brother, a person with no professional theological education, which as a teacher, can open up the doors to herecy and false teaching. If the school is teaching large groups of students there should be some one with formal theological trainning.

Next Page

http://magnoliachristiancenter.net/Mcc.htm

In this section we see a major warning sign for any program, I draw your attention to number two.

2. Exhibit a strong feeling of pride in the program and in his beliefs.

The three words... "In the program" seem alittle uncomfortable to me.

and number nine

9. Displays an instant and willing response to orders.

This part worries me theologically because scripture tells us to "Render to Ceaser what is Ceaser's" Which basicly means follow the rules of an earthly athority, but there is a limit... "Render to God what is God's" (its all one verse by the way, for those that dont know) and that God is no longer a God of rules and regulations, but one of relationships. Great biblical men did not have Instant and willing responce to orders, and still managed to work for God, infact, many Great scriptual men had athority issues. (Abraham, Moses, David)

That covers anything of the site worth much, thank you. I hope you have found this interesting. Comments? Questions?

Oh, I almost forgot the most important part! Spanking is unethical if not done by parents, you cant pass that responsiblity off. Under the New covenant spanking is not made unethical but its not really supported either. Under the Abrahamic Covenant one could kill a unrulely child, I dont think Magnolia Christian Center would like to be accused of following that biblical principle.

These are all my opinions.

[Anonymous]

Magnolia uses a wooden paddle to physically assault teenagers in a humiliating way as a way of coercion and punishment. Not to mention one of their staff likes to spend his time online talking to teenagers on sex forums. That is just creepy, he is 55 years old!

[Anonymous]

Overlord, did you read the other thread about Jimmy Pearce, the Director of Quality Assurance at Magnolia Christian Center, and his practice of posting on these teen websites, many which are sexual in nature. He even has pictures of young nude males as his "friends" on his My Space account.
What is your opinion about this?

[Oz girl]

The sad thing to me is that up until the early 80s corporal punishment in Australia was considered normal particularly at private boys schools.
American visitors/expats would occasionally express surprise and often genuine horror at what they quite rightfully saw as a barbaric practice which had no place in an otherwise civilised western country.

At the time they were seen by the average citizen as harmless but overly permissive hippys. The type of people who did not make their kids say please or thank you and who sent their offspring to montessori schools.

Finally other western countries seemed to follow the lead of the Americans and recognised that childrten could be disciplined in a far less barbaric fashion and some states of the US take it up again. Is this something that has experienced a resurgence or did it never fully go away in the the paddling states?

[nimdA]

Never fully went away.

[OverLordd]

I'm alive TSW, always been.

Guest, as to the stuff in Jimmy Pearce's myspace. I believe its not morally wrong to comment on other teen forums, but it is distasteful,and casts a poor light on the orginization as a whole. Its deffinately a negative spot on his record.

[psy]

Ok, well its been a while since I offered anything of any substance on this forum so I believe its time for alittle academic exercise.

If there is one thing that gets my blood boiling its when christians develop programs in the industry and sling around God's name like he has something to do with the harm and pain a child faces on a regular basis in places like these. I hate it when they claim to be christian and doing God's work, because if there is one thing they are not doing its Gods work.

Because of my schooling and some of my studies I have a unique abilty to combat those that claim to be doing the work of God. So, what follows is a Biblical commentary on Magnolia Christian Center.

If you will orient your self to this web page please.

http://http://magnoliachristiancenter.net/Respect.htm

You can take a look at their camp quicky, a 30 to 60 day boot camp like program meant for instant obidence.

Magnolia Christian Center offers a new type of camp designed for the teenage boy who needs immediate intervention by trained instructors to teach discipline, respect, and pride in young men who are headed for trouble. The focuses on structure, discipline, and exercise to reach troubled teens who might not respond to other programs.

Ok, now, some would ask, so what, sounds all good and bible like, dicipline, respect, pride. But the fact of the mater is not what it teaches, but how it tries to teach it. If you consider the idea of a camp like this, with a 30 to 60 day time table, it is a quick fix issue. This quick fix is not what God looks for. God does not look for obidence. God looks for a change in heart, and God looks for love. You cannot have discipline, respect, or pride if there is not underlying principle support. Principles can only be developed in the long term and not with one hour of core value trainning a day. Obidence does not fix humanity, love does, this program seems to be lacking.

Moving on to next section

http://magnoliachristiancenter.net/Structure.htm

Please observe the picture on this section of the young man looking alittle severe. I dont know if this is part of the disapline camp, but chritianity is hardly militant, and I quiet firmly disagree with orginizations that try to mix the two.
Moving down the page I direct your attention to the fact youth attend devotional groups. Forcing any youth to attend a church service, devotional group, or whatever, is very much against some basic christian principles. The Christian God is a God of choice, either you chose to do what he wishes you to, or you don't, God does not force indviduals to complete mundain tasks under the new covenant. We are useless to God if we are joyless and are forced to attend biblical services.

Next Page

http://magnoliachristiancenter.net/Faith.htm

More of the same about being forced to go to a church service, but I would like to point out that they are given by a Brother, a person with no professional theological education, which as a teacher, can open up the doors to herecy and false teaching. If the school is teaching large groups of students there should be some one with formal theological trainning.

Next Page

http://magnoliachristiancenter.net/Mcc.htm

In this section we see a major warning sign for any program, I draw your attention to number two.

2. Exhibit a strong feeling of pride in the program and in his beliefs.

The three words... "In the program" seem alittle uncomfortable to me.

What?  You thought they meant that God???  oh no no no silly.. this is program. there is only one god and that is the institution, without which you will die... becuase you need it, and program loves you(r money) dearly...

and number nine

9. Displays an instant and willing response to orders.

And blind obedience... there's no surprise there.

You know... there's a song for this kind of thing: Tool - Opiate

don't ya love when people use religion to mind-fuck

This part worries me theologically because scripture tells us to "Render to Ceaser what is Ceaser's" Which basicly means follow the rules of an earthly athority, but there is a limit... "Render to God what is God's"

Bingo... separation of powers right there.  Personally i always interpreted that as god saying "it's really none of my fucking businesses"  But nobody reads that part because if you snip pieces of it together in different ways you can make people do all sorts of silly things.  And they'll love you for it.

(its all one verse by the way, for those that dont know) and that God is no longer a God of rules and regulations, but one of relationships. Great biblical men did not have Instant and willing responce to orders, and still managed to work for God, infact, many Great scriptual men had athority issues. (Abraham, Moses, David)

Howabout Jesus himself.. he wasn't too popular with the local moral busybodies as I understand it... and that's putting it very mildly.

That covers anything of the site worth much, thank you. I hope you have found this interesting. Comments? Questions?

Oh, I almost forgot the most important part! Spanking is unethical if not done by parents, you cant pass that responsiblity off. Under the New covenant spanking is not made unethical but its not really supported either. Under the Abrahamic Covenant one could kill a unrulely child, I dont think Magnolia Christian Center would like to be accused of following that biblical principle.

Now there's where I get lost.  Why does God change his mind so friggin often.  Who'se to say that nobody's added, or subtracted just a word here and there to make life easier.  You get my drift.  If there Is a God... he probably gave us an in-built "hmm... this is bad" meter.  Why do people have to micromanage by saying... No!  THIS holy book is the allmighty instruction manual....  Jeez... people all over the place argue "there is only one truth" but nobody seems to aggree on what it is.. which leads me to think we're probably all wrong to look to a book or a man, or a hierarchy, or the state to tell us whether it is right or not to follow one's conscience.

but that's my spiel on, not aetheism, but "we don't know jack shit so let's stop pretending we do"ism. Feel free to disaggree.  Hey.  I probably have it wrong too.

[AtomicAnt]

"Now there's where I get lost. Why does God change his mind so friggin often. Who'se to say that nobody's added, or subtracted just a word here and there to make life easier. You get my drift. If there Is a God... he probably gave us an in-built "hmm... this is bad" meter. Why do people have to micromanage by saying... No! THIS holy book is the allmighty instruction manual.... Jeez... people all over the place argue "there is only one truth" but nobody seems to aggree on what it is.. which leads me to think we're probably all wrong to look to a book or a man, or a hierarchy, or the state to tell us whether it is right or not to follow one's conscience.

but that's my spiel on, not aetheism, but "we don't know jack shit so let's stop pretending we do"ism. Feel free to disaggree. Hey. I probably have it wrong too."

Here is my Jewish opinion.
There is One G-D
One Creator of everything.

Whatever you choose call it..." May the force be with you" ::hatter::

Evolutionary Psychology is an interesting field. It addresses the question, 'If there is no God, where does morality come from?'

The short answer is that empathy and compassion are survival traits for a social animal.

Ask yourselft this. If God were to disappear, would you become an amoral or immoral person? Do you behave in a moral way only because you are are afraid of hell or seek reward in heaven?

[69]

Hitting teenagers with a paddle in the name of anything is ineffective and stupid.

[OverLordd]

Bingo... separation of powers right there. Personally i always interpreted that as god saying "it's really none of my fucking businesses" But nobody reads that part because if you snip pieces of it together in different ways you can make people do all sorts of silly things. And they'll love you for it.

I was more making an example that you should follow the rule of law untill that law started to misbehave in Gods eyes, then you dont have to listen any more.

Howabout Jesus himself.. he wasn't too popular with the local moral busybodies as I understand it... and that's putting it very mildly.

Jesus is God. You can't really be a man of God and be God at the same time. Thats why I dident include the obvious choice of Jesus.

Now there's where I get lost. Why does God change his mind so friggin often. Who'se to say that nobody's added, or subtracted just a word here and there to make life easier. You get my drift. If there Is a God... he probably gave us an in-built "hmm... this is bad" meter. Why do people have to micromanage by saying... No! THIS holy book is the allmighty instruction manual.... Jeez... people all over the place argue "there is only one truth" but nobody seems to aggree on what it is.. which leads me to think we're probably all wrong to look to a book or a man, or a hierarchy, or the state to tell us whether it is right or not to follow one's conscience.

but that's my spiel on, not aetheism, but "we don't know jack shit so let's stop pretending we do"ism. Feel free to disaggree. Hey. I probably have it wrong too.

Well psy, God never ever changed his mind, he just changed his agreements with humanity. the old testament was a relationshp with man based on rules and athority. "I will be your God if..." kind of agreements. thats why you have God smacking down so many people in the old testament when they disobeyed. The current relationship humanity has with God under this new covenant is one of love. "I am God, come to me..." With Jesus' sacrfice it makes it possible to come to God as sinless beings already repented, instead of having to purify your self with sacrfice and all that.

Moving on. We know they dident change scripture because its lasted for so long, we have old copies of scripture (non orginal) and it hase not changed. We also have commontary from some old church forefathers on scripture and we can compare what we have to that. Also the Jews have been handing down the old testament for generations over and over again, so they got that down solid, all we really have to do is take their copy. Also if it changed the religion would of colasped by now, some one would of found what changed, harped on it untill everything went to hell and the religion colasped and had no athority, but thats not the case.

The fact of the matter psy is that some one really does have to be right. All religions are mutually exclusive, and cannot co exist. So some one is right. Its either Jesus, Mohommed, whoever. In a logical world where all belifes are allowed to follow to their logical conclusion, we would have massive religious wars, right now Islam is working its way there.

[Anonymous]

Exit Plan, Theologists could answer your questions, but you dont care to seem to want them answered. The basic answer to your question is its your own fault. Humanity did this, but you dont want that to be the answer, so you belittle God and call him a invisable sky god and try to make him go away

[69]

Exit Plan, Theologists could answer your questions, but you dont care to seem to want them answered. The basic answer to your question is its your own fault. Humanity did this, but you dont want that to be the answer, so you belittle God and call him a invisable sky god and try to make him go away

 Ill give that some thought....  :smokin:

[psy]

Bingo... separation of powers right there. Personally i always interpreted that as god saying "it's really none of my fucking businesses" But nobody reads that part because if you snip pieces of it together in different ways you can make people do all sorts of silly things. And they'll love you for it.

I was more making an example that you should follow the rule of law untill that law started to misbehave in Gods eyes, then you dont have to listen any more.

Howabout Jesus himself.. he wasn't too popular with the local moral busybodies as I understand it... and that's putting it very mildly.

Jesus is God. You can't really be a man of God and be God at the same time. Thats why I dident include the obvious choice of Jesus.

Well aren't you supposed to follow his example?

The fact of the matter psy is that some one really does have to be right.

Why?

[psy]

Exit Plan, Theologists could answer your questions, but you dont care to seem to want them answered. The basic answer to your question is its your own fault. Humanity did this, but you dont want that to be the answer, so you belittle God and call him a invisable sky god and try to make him go away

Group think is intoxicating. Shaming people is the common conversion tactic, just like any program

You notice patterns well young grasshoppa.  but there are big differences between religions and cults/programs. (besides just numbers).  Religions can also be cults however, take Mormonism...  Ooh i'm gonna get flack for this but.. Mit Romney scares the living fuck out of me.  If he becomes president, i am leaving ... bye bye... gone... vamoose.  Mel Sembler's riding his train now... Oh they all stick together.

Christianity, all in all, really isn't that bad, it's just that it's followers can get overly zealous and wreak havoc. Most religions do that.  But people are free to believe what they want.  I only have a problem if a belief is coerced.  Now you could argue that a family structure does this, but proper Christians (admittedly not most) raise their kids allowing them to choose...

[hanzomon4]

And that's the meat of this hot potato, the loudest folks waving the christian flag truly don't live up to the example of Christ. That's not bad because we're human but what is bad is the fact that the loudest of the bunch live completely opposite of Christ's example and attempt to justify their  wrong with the bible.

As to the Gay thing, God made and loves Gay people as much as he loves straight, bi, and abstinent people. The "church" today is missing out on the blessing LGBT folks offer, what is that blessing?

The blessing is having the choice to not judge them and simply love them as God does.........