How Long until You Confessed?

[Remembering]

Hi All,

I'm one of the Seedlings who never touched, even saw a drug, before I was put in the Seed ( St Pete 1974). Of course, I eventually confessed to doing drugs, but can't quite remember how long it took until I confessed... was it the third day, fourth day.. did I last a week?

I confessed soon after Parent's night, as that experience ripped away any hope I had for getting out of there by being honest.

Do any of you remember when you confessed? Any one remember this that did not do drugs--at least--before The Seed?

How did it feel when you did confess? I can't remember the day, but I remember much of the feelings before, during and after my 'confession'.

[GregFL]

I think for me it was the third open meeting, maybe 7 days.  back then in St  Pete, open meetings were monday and friday.

They had something called the "3 day miracle" which was about the time you realized you weren't getting out and could perhaps fake your way home.  Then the faking started bluring with reality...and we all know the rest.

[Remembering]

Open Meetings? Is this what remember as  "Parent's night?" If so, I remember it being just once a week... But then, without the moral inventories, I would have had any concept of how long I was there, or what day it was.

[GregFL]

Open Meetings? Is this what remember as  "Parent's night?" If so, I remember it being just once a week... But then, without the moral inventories, I would have had any concept of how long I was there, or what day it was.

What you remember as 'parents night' was actually called 'open meetings'.  It was also, somewhat, open to the public (screened at the door).

Here, we put on a show for everyone.  Song, confessionals, teary "im coming home" "I can talk to you after the meeting" and other privelidges we earned we had to announce, and then everyone would applaud and smile.  Art would do 'surveys' where he would ask us "who has done this or that" and we would by show of hands confess to our sins while our neighbors and parents stood by witnessing.  After everyone cleared out, we had a small 'rap' and then left, usually somewhere around 12:00.



It was an emotional circus.  Initially in St Pete, it was monday and Friday. Before long it was Fridays only.

[Anonymous]

At CEDU, we had "raps" three days a week, MWF.  They lasted four hours a pop.  An emotional circus if ever there was one. So, are Open Meetings basically the Seed version of a rap, and if you had them 1-2 a week, how was the rest of the time structured?

We had:

MWF: Intense outdoor labor followed by lunch, then a rap, then dinner, lights out

T/Th: All day school (total sham) dinner, clean up, lights out

Saturday: Cleaning crew day and I forgot what else

Sunday: Chill day.

Periodically, we had overnight raps lasting from 24 hours to 5 days, and wilderness experentials lasting from 3 days to 2 weeks.  Part of these wilderness trips included raps (UGH!) and solitary.

[GregFL]

no, we had "raps" every day from 10 in the morning until 10 at night with a few minor breaks...15 minute exercise..lunch...dinner.  These were done right in the wooden chair you "rapped" in.    You were forced into this mind numbing routine until you earned your right to be an oldcomer, which meant you came at night and on the weekends.


The "raps" were non stop, confrontational, tiring and emotional.  YOu were punished if you mind wandered, if you failed to keep your eyes on the rap leader or speaker, or if you failed to properly 'motivate' your desire to participate.  If and when you did participate, a confrontation may or may not take place.  You never knew when or why it was coming.  It was said that the staffers were so aware that they knew what you were thinking and it was fruitless to try to 'con'.

We had no chill day, no diversion whatsoever. We weren't allowed to read, to watch TV, to call anyone, or to even look at a billboard.  Free thinking was out.  You had to preach the party line or face the consequences, which were usually severe and immediate.

 Hard labor chipping rocks on a prison work gang would have been much preferable.

[Anonymous]

Our raps sound similar except yours' were more prolonged... and we had no tv or phone use (to help keep us isolated.)  Even though Sunday was "chill day" we were always under watch, never alone, and always expected to adhere to CEDU protocol. We could not discuss things outside of CEDU, so our minds were controlled (or should I say what we expressed).  Older students were our "watch dogs" to make sure we never expressed or acted in any way that demonstrated free thinking.  You also had to be sure not to spend too much time enjoying something, or you would be put on indefinite bans, such as banned from books or even in one case, from the sun.  Girls with long beautiful hair got it chopped off (the excuse was that we shouldn't focus on outer beauty.)

The hours of hard, physical labor was a haven for me, a former beach queen who emptied the dishwasher or cleaned my room for "labor."  Hell, I was more than happy to chop wood for hours, run wheelbarrels full of logs a half mile, climb trees and saw off branches, dig trenches to install pipes --anything that didn't induce the emotional upheaval of raps.  I did a really good job of hiding in the woodworks, and keeping my nose clean, but I hated the unpredictability of being spotlighted in a rap that was usually focused on false accusations, and I hated, hated, hated watching other peopel being routinely castigated and humiliated. The worst was that I was being increasingly pressured to be part of the lynch mob, hurting others to "prove" my loyalty to the group. That's when I split.

Still, it sounds like we had greater physical comfort than those in Straight or the Seed. (Our parents did spend big bucks to keep us there.)  And we didn't have 12 hour raps, which too me, is so extreme, I can't even imagine how anyone can justify this as therapeutic.    Anyone who says this is reasonable or beneficial, is frankly, a jackass whose head is far, far up the ass of denial.  I mean, it just doesn't make sense!

[NOT12NOW]

never lied in any straight forward way.  I had smoked pot but never been high.  I drank but had only been drunk once.  My story became that the only reason I had done so few drugs was because other drugs had never come my way, "I would have taken anything given to me," was what I said.  I think, it took me about two weeks to settle on that line.    It was the compromise I made because I  believed the staff could read my mind, so I wouldn't have dared  lie and know I was lieing.  So instead of lying about a list of drugs I just lied about myself, my core.  I did everything I could to convince them and myself that I really would have done heroin if somebody offered it to me.   Just like everyone else first I tried to fake it to get sent home, then I broke which, meant I started trying to fool myself instead of them.   And fool myself I did.  Sadly to this day I am still not quite sure what the truth was.  I know that, "I would have done anything anyone gave me," wasn't true but I also know I did lots of frightenly destructive, dangerous things to myself and others.  To this day I still don't know how much danger I was actually in or if I might have been able to come out of it myself.

[NOT12NOW]

in answer to Remembering question.  I recall feeling only relief when I came up with my "exageration."  Finally, I had hit the mark and people started treating me more kindly.

[Anonymous]

Funny...I was honest with them. I remember saying I only did speed once and the staff member said "yeah right" I looked at him like "FU" . I stuck to my guns was honest and the program worked for me.  I did alot of other drugs but speed only once.  I guess to thine own self be true..

[Anonymous]

So you're saying sitting in a chair for hours each day listening to people be browbeaten or humiliated was therapeutic to you?  THta you would be deadinsaneorinjail if you had not participated in this program?

[Anonymous]

I didn't listen to hours of browbeating nor was I ever humiliated.  Sure I remember fear.  When I started working the program and really working it.  It worked for me.  I remember all really human & humane experiences.  I remember people caring for me and me learning to care for others.  I think that was the point.

[Anne Bonney]

Couple of questions.  What were you afraid of and how exactly did you "work the program"?  What does that mean?

[GregFL]

"to each their own" said farmer Joe as he made a lunch date with his favorite goat.

[Anonymous]

I, too would like to know what "working the program" consists of and what your perspective of the raps and group work is...  

Are you saying you never saw any badgering, coersion, browbeating... a taking pleasure in hyperbolic confessions?  Was everyone sitting in a circle in a supportive love fest? Was individual spirit  really embraced? Was anyone whose opinion deviated from the staff accepted as true and not immediately dismissed?