Author Topic: Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"  (Read 37439 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #135 on: February 08, 2006, 10:21:00 AM »
::heart::
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #136 on: February 08, 2006, 10:45:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-08 05:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You mean "shouldn't have used diute"..the rest of that post is horseshit.  "


Must be opposites day. Please, Hip, don't dilute yourself! You're just fine at full strength!

Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism--how passionately I hate them!
--Albert Einstein

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #137 on: February 08, 2006, 10:58:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-07 21:25:00, gutenwooten67 wrote:

Reply:
Yo Paul, Ever hear of Communist re-education camps? I understand they work pretty well too. Wake up.
Sincerly,
Anonymous


While I get what you're saying, these jokers hit the ground on third base and they still think they hit a home run.

Same thing happened in my family. The Seedling grads got a start, financial support, job offeres and other connects. Me? I got shown the door w/o an education or a buck or change of clothes to my name. When I got back to Pompano, I found that my mom had been recruiting. At least two of my old friends had been shipped off to some program or other, not Straight.

All the rest, teachers, neighbors, anybody I might want to catch up with, they all thought I was some kind of junkie. Worse? After my daughter was born, I thought I'd drop in on my elderly cousin. She didn't have a phone, so there was no calling ahead or anything. That old lady who had always been so cool, so understanding, so interesting and so damned adept at putting anyone at ease, she was scared to death of me! Muy demoralizing! I made it anyway. Fuck all the nay-sayers.

A happy coincidence, though. My ex happened to take a job in maint at Cousin K's appt complex. And he'd take our daughter w/ him on the weekends. And so she came home one Sunday afternoon telling me all about Miss K. showing her how to graft plants and serving her some interesting kind of cookies w/ tea on very old china; very formal and proper! Turns out at least Vic got to know Cousin K. despite my mother's best work. Ironic part is the ex turned out to actually be a crack head and violent criminal. S'awright, though, K never saw that side of him.

At the end of the day, though, yeah the good little Nazis have gotten lots of breaks. But I think that's changing.

Even a little boy sees rottenness rewarded and good people smacked down. Unctuous rationalizations of this by otherwise sensible adults disgust little children.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/10i.htm' target='_new'>John Taylor Gatto

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Lost_In_Translation

  • Posts: 19
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #138 on: February 08, 2006, 11:46:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-07 15:27:00, Eudora wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-02-07 12:38:00, Paul_Meyer wrote:


"You're right, I should have contacted him off-line.  I didn't even know it was an option, until after I hit send.  I should never hit send when I'm still angry.  He may remember it differently than I do.  He was insane.  




So were you. So was damned near everybody involved in the Program.



Eudora, I wasn't insane.  I was mean, rightous, "powerful", arrogant and rude.  
I won't permit myself that excuse.  


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #139 on: February 08, 2006, 12:00:00 PM »
you were weak
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Lost_In_Translation

  • Posts: 19
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #140 on: February 08, 2006, 03:29:00 PM »
I was weak. I'll agree with that.

I shouldn't have trashed Hip openly.  I agree with that, too.

I'll repeat what I believe to be my only point.  Hip has posted stories trashing me and his friends about what happened that are false.  He could have said worse things about me, Mike, Pete and others  that are true, I'm sure.

I just want to know why - from him.  He has not answered that one question either by PM's or the open posts.  Nobody here can answer it for him.  Anyone else can weigh in, but really, you can't answer.
   
I wasn't in St. Pete with him.  He was incarcerated about six weeks longer than I.  I'm sure I had an easier time in treatment.  I was 19 when we met, and "wanted to be there".  He was 5 years "straight" when I met him.  He was over age by then,older than me, and still coming around.  I admired him.  I rode around in his SuperBee with Scott W. and Kevin G.  Two years later we had jobs on staff together.  It was supposed to be great.

Reading his posts kind of cut me open.
Stuff I'd forgotten.  

I don't agree with his version of the events that took place.  I remember it differently.

Hip "remembers" on his posts that he returned and removed a drain plug from someone's transmission to exact revenge.  He might have done it to Mike's '80 Camaro or Pete's '79 Cordoba.  Pete's car never ran right.  Those are his memories.  Ask Him.

What I remember is being off staff for a few weeks and driving on 128 to my new job.  My brakes went soft as I drove toward a traffic jam.  In my 14 month old Ford Escort. I Stood on the pedal and rear ended a car in the breakdown lane doing 50.  It was a four car collision.  I put my head through the windshield.  Concussion, lacerations, a strained neck, two strained wrists, and a couple of loose teeth.  No seatbelt - I was lucky, they said.  I didn't have health insurance.  I got a bill for $157.00 to cover the ambulance.  Somebody, a straight parent, I think, paid the rest.  For a few weeks after, I would sometimes cut my fingertips on the broken glass bits embedded in the scabs when I washed my hair.  

Before I read Hip's post, I thought it was just an accident.  What would you think, reading that on-line after 20+ years?

I remember lot's of other things, but they didn't happen to me, so I don't feel right about sharing them here. I'll share them with Hip, though.  

If you were there, tell me what you personally remember.  What happened in that apartment - or at 53 Evans Drive, Stoughton, MA between April and July, 1985?  

If you weren't there, have your say.  There's a big difference between "I remember" and "I think".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #141 on: February 08, 2006, 03:37:00 PM »
Quote


On 2006-02-07 12:38:00, Paul_Meyer wrote:

Eudora, I wasn't insane.  I was mean, rightous, "powerful", arrogant and rude.  

I won't permit myself that excuse.  






Ok, you seem to have believed and believe to this day that what staff said was true, anyone who disagreed must be nuts and that what you were doing there was theraputic and helpful.

Please explain how that jives w/ you not being off your rocker?

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is
proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in
everlasting ignorance- that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
--Herbert Spencer

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #142 on: February 08, 2006, 03:43:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-02-08 12:29:00, Paul_Meyer wrote:

I just want to know why - from him. He has not answered that one question either by PM's or the open posts. Nobody here can answer it for him. Anyone else can weigh in, but really, you can't answer.


Nope, I can't answer authoratatively. But I can make a very well educated guess cause essentially the same thing happened to me and to every other split, pull-off and alleged fuckup I ever knew going all they way back to the Seed in 1970.

What Hip says you did to him was probably not something you came up with all on your own. It was SOP for that fucked up place. It's a relavent part of the story; he's describing the Program definition of group love and support. Just don't take it so personally, man!

The Mann family was only one of a host of influential voices being raised against the traditional reading instructions in the most literate nation on earth.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/3n.htm' target='_new'>John Taylor Gatto

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #143 on: February 08, 2006, 04:10:00 PM »
guessing ain't the same as being. nice try, tho.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #144 on: February 08, 2006, 05:48:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-02-08 12:29:00, Paul_Meyer wrote:

Before I read Hip's post, I thought it was just an accident. What would you think, reading that on-line after 20+ years?


Given the totality of circumstances (you were Straight staff, after all) I'd think you got a long assed line of potential suspects. Wasn't there an accident investigation? Didn't they check the break lines? Why are you trying to pull shit outa your ass to try and smear Hip?

The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060007761/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Alexander Solzhenitsyn

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #145 on: February 08, 2006, 07:25:00 PM »
how much is Matt paying you to do his thinking and typing for him? give it a rest, sister.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Lost_In_Translation

  • Posts: 19
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #146 on: February 08, 2006, 07:26:00 PM »
Eudora, I understand that you're hip's friend.
Ask him.  

It's not entirely clear to me how this site works.  It's not about clearing my name.  

Before Monday, he was just someone I used to be friends with a long time ago.  We had a falling out.  On Monday, I started wondering if the guy might have almost killed me.  Could there be other suspects?  Sure.  I could have just crashed because I was a bad driver.  

"I took the transmission plug out of one of thier new cars"  

I had a new car.  Who else had a new car in that apartment?  There were five of us.  Mike (old camaro) Pete (old dodge) Kevin (old VW) Matt (old Superbee, or old Tempest)
You're right, I'm paranoid.  Still own guns in case they come to get me.

You asked why no investigation.
If I had suspected anything I suppose I could have said something.  They totalled the car, every fluid but the gas leaked out on the side of the road.  The engine was where the radio used to be.  It went from the tow truck to the junkyard.  

Hip was fired for something that I will not disclose.  Exclusion of evidence rules, client confidentiality and statute of limitations apply.  If you had asked me back then what he was fired for, I would have told you "suspicion of drug use".  Just like they told me to.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #147 on: February 08, 2006, 09:05:00 PM »
Yes, I think you're paranoid. And it's a particular, familiar brand of paranoia. Damned near every one of us landed up in that place because of the same stupid logic. "Well, if you think you smell pot on your kid, that's a sure sign he's into something much, much stronger! Get him down here, quick, before he starts shooting heroin and sucking dick for crack!"

You pissed somebody off to the degree that they were willing to fuck up your car. You can't understand any reason why, after all your 'help' and 'support', anybody would think of such a thing  :roll: and so they must be crazy. And if they're crazy enough to hate you, why a crazy sob like that might just do any thing!

Can't possibly be that ya' had it commin', huh?

[sigh]

Same ol'e. Like I say, very well educated guess.

Nothing is denied to well-directed labor, and nothing is ever to be
attained without it.
--Joshua Reynolds (1723-1792)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #148 on: February 08, 2006, 10:49:00 PM »
Kinda like this, Paul, only not so funny:

But before he could move, I grabbed me a chair
And said: 'Watch him folks, 'cause he's a thoroughly dangerous man
Well, you may not know it, but this man's a spy
He's an undercover agent for the FBI
And he's been sent down here to infiltrate the Ku Klux Klan'

He was still bent over, holdin' on to his knee
But everyone else was lookin' and listenin' to me
And I layed it on thicker and heavier as I went
I said: 'Would you believe this man has gone as far
As tearin' Wallace stickers off the bumpers of cars
And he voted for George McGovern for President'

'He's a friend of them long-haired, hippie type, pinko fags
I betcha he's even got a Commie flag
Tacked up on the wall, inside of his garage
He's a snake in the grass, I tell ya guys
He may look dumb, but that's just a disguise
He's a mastermind in the ways of espionage'

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.
-- Anonymous

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Binky

  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #149 on: February 08, 2006, 11:49:00 PM »
I've been reading this string for the past 10 pages - and I remember both these guys - I remember Matt & I remember Paul -

I remember Matt seeming like a breath of fresh air on staff - he was unique, different and I thought a savior to the group ? like robin Williams in Dead Poets Society?but nothing ever manifested from that and I never knew about any of the back story ? just the rumors, but remember Matt in a good light.

I remember Paul especially - Paul did my intake - and Paul profoundly changed my life for the better - on day one -- during my program -- and today - 20 years later I think of him fondly and am grateful I met him.

My mom put in me in str8 - no gettin' out for me - Paul gave this "druggy" a choice, a chance and a path - he gave this "phaser" ideas and a direction through his brilliant words and his example - and he gave and gives (through my memory) this sober man a better life.

Paul if you read this and if there's ever any bad thoughts of what you've done in the past as a "staffer" - let me balance it out now -

YOU set me on this path - and I have a great life

Thank you!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »