Why Are Struggling Parents Such An Easy Mark?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-27 05:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Atomic Ant- I must have missed the post where you listed your credentials.  You know, the ones that would allow you to opine that all the parents who rely on programs are terrible and abusive parents. I am so envious of your crystal ball that permitted you to know so much about every family.

Actually, you are blowing all this crap out your ass, but that seems to be the requirement for many posters on this board."

Now, now, Anon, don't blame the messenger (Atomic Ant) just because YOU don't like the message.

Perhaps you would prefer to subscribe to the Struggling Parents forum known as Struggling Teens?  I hear tell that forum doesn't even allow posters to disclose the name of the program they sent their kids to.  

 :rofl:

[Anonymous]

Sometimes parents, good, loving parents have no other options.  When there are other children in the home being hurt.  When one child is out of control and refuses to be a part of the family, the way the laws are set up, the parent has to do something.  A parent cannot just let the child suffer natural consequences.  It is illegal to do so.  If a parent doesn't search for a runaway, it is abandonment.  If a parent doesn't commit a drug using or alchol consuming teen to rehab, it is contributing to the delinquincy of a minor.  If a parent doesn't protect the other children from physical abuse of a sibling it is considered abuse by the parent.  I don't thinkk that many parents intentionally send their child to an abusive facility.  The parents have no choice but to do something.

[Antigen]

Anon, what you're saying is true today. But it wasn't like this a generation ago. All good intentions aside, these laws are set up to rig the game against the kids.

Look over some of the advice proffered by the troubled parent industry. You can go to any of the toughlove hategroup forums and learn all kinds of nifty tricks for setting your kid up for legal trouble in order to gain some more coercive control over them. They'll tell you all about the Marchman Act and the Baker Act and how to word an assault complaint against your own kid in order to force them to obey you. Then they encourage you to blame the very same system which they've both lobbied to alter to their liking and instructed you to use.

We cannot in good concience allow the responsibility for this mess to land on our children. We're the grown ups.

A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace.
http://memory.loc.gov/const/fed/fed_46.html' target='_new'>James Madison, The Federalist No. 46

[Nonconformistlaw]

On 2005-09-27 04:54:00, AtomicAnt wrote:
"These parents are easy marks because:
8. They believe they are doing the right thing for the teen, and that they have the right to do this. They view their kids as property. They falsely believe they can control another individual, and have a right to."

I agreed with everything Atomic Ant said in a very well thought out post. I picked out number 8 for comment for a reason though. I always told my dad over the years (years after Straight when we finally began speaking again) that I was never meant to be controlled. He agreed.

I believe many parents begin raising children from the get go with the faulty premise that children MUST by controlled. I beleive this mentality plays a major role in how parents get to the point they "feel desparate to find a solution because nothing works" because they canont control the child.

The reason "nothing works" is in my mind a result of trying to control the uncontrollable. People are not meant to be controlled especially those who are just born with a mind of their own and cannot be nor should be controlled.

That said, I do not think this in any way undermines a parent's role whatsoever. Structure and rules are fine but its the way the parent goes about enforcing the rules.

Parents get very hung up on thinking the child is uncontrollable when he/she continueously fails to abide by rules. In reality, such children should be approached differently. Why not lay out the structure and rules and then impose consequences but instead of the goal be to control, change the goal to guidance and teaching. If the child breaks the rules, fine that's their choice, the child will have to live with the consequences. If a child disagrees with a rule....find out why, listen to the child's opinion. Sometimes parents do impose silly rules soley for the sake of controlling the child. I firmly believe that if a rule is legitimate and important, if a parent takes the time to explain why the rule is there, the child might be more likely to follow a rule that makes sense. If not, why not negotiate a similar rule that fulfills the same purpose but yet allows the child to have input. This in my mind would bring about more cooperation because at least the child continuously is allowed to have input.

I realize that went a little off topic and there is much more to what I'm saying. But the point is...parenting should not be about controlling a child for the sake of exerting power over a child (authoritarian)...this will almost always lead to "unsolvable" problems. Parenting should be putting in place a structure that allows a child to make choices, allows the child input, and still allows the child to learn about consequences. This would help avoid a parent feeling "desparate" in the first place in many cases, therefore less likely to fall for sales pitches that prey on parental desparation.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-27 06:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Sometimes parents, good, loving parents have no other options.  When there are other children in the home being hurt.  When one child is out of control and refuses to be a part of the family, the way the laws are set up, the parent has to do something.  A parent cannot just let the child suffer natural consequences.  It is illegal to do so.  If a parent doesn't search for a runaway, it is abandonment.  If a parent doesn't commit a drug using or alchol consuming teen to rehab, it is contributing to the delinquincy of a minor.  If a parent doesn't protect the other children from physical abuse of a sibling it is considered abuse by the parent.  I don't thinkk that many parents intentionally send their child to an abusive facility.  The parents have no choice but to do something.  "

So the only viable solution in your mind is to remove the child from their home, school and community and place them with strangers who are somehow more qualified than you to teach your kid respect for God, Country and Family Values?

That's preposterous! These programs are full of "good kids" making "bad choices" whose parents can afford the hefty price tag attached to controlling the attitude and behavior of their children.

At least call it what it is ... a locked behavior changing money-making institution that no kid, no matter how "troubled" should been sent to in lieu of family counseling and training.

It isn't the kid who is infecting the family unit, it's the other way around.  

Change your parenting skills. Throw away the program parent manual and get the advice of trained professionals (people who have degrees from real colleges and universities, not some mail-order diploma).

Work with a therapist who does not view your teen as the BAD SEED, the problem maker, the enemy.  Blaming kids for their parents failure is a sick twisted thing to do.  You are setting up a cycle of abuse that will impact your grandchildren one day as you have taught your child to equate love with abuse.  (TOUGHLOVE)

Sorry, but your whining is getting old.  No one in their right mind would ever agree parents have a license to abuse their children by proxy.

Why are you here?  To convince yourself that you really are a good parent?  Well, good luck.  Don't think there are too many people buying the bullshit you are selling.

 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

One of the recurrent "themes" I see struggling parents using is " CAN'T BE A BAD PARENT, LOOK HOW WELL BEHAVED (SUCCESSFUL) MY OTHER KIDS ARE".

Think about what this means.  The parent is upset that not all his/her children are identical in personality, temperment, intelligence, etc.

One kid is different ... and ends up being banished to a hellcamp where they will be forced to LOVE THE PROGRAM as a condition for their release.

Again, this is just sick, sick, sick.

Shame on these parents.  They aren't desperate, they are fundementally fucked up.  Bet ya in many of these cases, the parent was raised by someone just like them ...

And the beat goes on.

 :smokin:

[TheWho]

"One of the recurrent "themes" I see struggling parents using is " CAN'T BE A BAD PARENT, LOOK HOW WELL BEHAVED (SUCCESSFUL) MY OTHER KIDS ARE".

Again, this is just sick, sick, sick.

Shame on these parents.  


 :smokin: "

Its obvious from all these post that the KIDS arent the problem at all, it is clearly the PARENTS Fault, but wait, who taught the PARENTS???
The GRANDPARENTS !!!!  Lets blame them.  That way the kids can feel good blaming someone else and the parents can feel good by blaming someone else too.  That way no one has to be accountable!!!!

[Anonymous]

Okay, Antigen,
Agreed, the laws are wrong. In a perfect world the 16/17 year old would be held responsible for their actions, and he/she could leave the house if they didn't like the no drugs, no booze, no sex in the house rules.  However, that is not the case.  Unless you have a HUGE house to let the child "do his own thing" in his own room, unfortunately that child does affect the other siblings.  The "friends" being snuck in the window of a shared bedroom, the drugs being left around where a younger child could get ahold of them.  The physical threats if mom or dad is told.  What are those parents to do?  Just hide and hope no one gets hurt?  The family I am specifically thinking of did try family counseling, one on one therapy, parenting classes, testing to see if there was some need for meds, consequences are great but when you take away the car and say you are grounded and the kid still bolts out the door or window in the middle of night, or brings people in....then what?  When the other children are scared and looking for other people to stay with so they don't have to deal with brother...what then?  Let everyone suffer while one grows up?  What about the effect on the other children?  This family has grieved and grieved over what to do.  I don't know anyone who was happy to ship their kid off.  But again, where is the solution?  Oh, before you say try friends and other family.  They did that.  Everyone sent the child back to the parents.  The longest he stayed anywhere was 3 weeks before he was told to leave.

[Anonymous]

You got it!  A great point for the orgin of man!  It all goes back to Eve and that apple!  Just keep pushing the blame back!

[SHH Anon Classics]

Here's an idea; how about if the kids start behaving at home and respecting their parents and staying in school and staying off drugs! That way their parents won't have a chance to turn into "strugging parents" and look for schools to put their kids in. Everybody wins. Kids behave. Parents don't have to shell out 100,000 dollars for someone to do their parenting for them. Bad schools don't have a chance to make money off of them. Just imagine the possibilities!

[Anonymous]

I like it!  Sounds like a great idea!

[Anonymous]

I agree! Teens are the future parents of tomorrow. Break this vicious cycle and start taking resonsibility for youselves. That way parents don't always have to be the bad guys!

[TheWho]

I agree too,  plus we dont have to waste all this time trying to shut down all the TEEN HELP schools because all the kids being raised now are going to have parents that are so much more aware or their childrens' needs that the Schools will go out of business becuase they wont be needed.  If everyone is correct we should start seeing a downturn in enrollment any time now.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-27 10:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Okay, Antigen,

Agreed, the laws are wrong. In a perfect world the 16/17 year old would be held responsible for their actions, and he/she could leave the house if they didn't like the no drugs, no booze, no sex in the house rules.  However, that is not the case.  Unless you have a HUGE house to let the child "do his own thing" in his own room, unfortunately that child does affect the other siblings.  The "friends" being snuck in the window of a shared bedroom, the drugs being left around where a younger child could get ahold of them.  The physical threats if mom or dad is told.  What are those parents to do?  Just hide and hope no one gets hurt?  The family I am specifically thinking of did try family counseling, one on one therapy, parenting classes, testing to see if there was some need for meds, consequences are great but when you take away the car and say you are grounded and the kid still bolts out the door or window in the middle of night, or brings people in....then what?  When the other children are scared and looking for other people to stay with so they don't have to deal with brother...what then?  Let everyone suffer while one grows up?  What about the effect on the other children?  This family has grieved and grieved over what to do.  I don't know anyone who was happy to ship their kid off.  But again, where is the solution?  Oh, before you say try friends and other family.  They did that.  Everyone sent the child back to the parents.  The longest he stayed anywhere was 3 weeks before he was told to leave."

LOL .. this is sooooo fake ... perfectly tailored to fit your argument.

Look, troubled teens are a dime a dozen.  Nothing special about yours or your imaginary friends.  

Lighten up on the noose around your kid's neck, he/she just might start jumping through hoops for ya.

Teens are supposed to separate from their parents, some do push the envelope too far, and in the old days, landed in juvie where they got their provervial wake-up call ... not some abusive private hellhole where their parents paid to keep them for years.

Wise up, and stop with the propagandic messages.

We know better.

 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

sorry, i no longer have a teen, and fortunately, by God's grace, my child has grown into a mature, kind, respectful adult, despite my parenting mistakes!  I have sent my friends to this sight in order to give them a heads up to any red flags the program their son is in may send out.  They are distraught over their decision.  It wasn't one entered into lightly.  And your response still doesn't answer the question as to "what then?"  How do you protect the other children?  Sometimes, a program IS the only solution.  So...parents, shop carefully.  If you know of something else what is it?  If nothing else is there, then you guys that have been thru it may be able to make a fortune by opening up a place that WILL be a solution.